308 and varget

[marineshooter]

I am new to reloading rifle,but I have been reloading pistol for about 30 years. I just got a Springfield m1a in 308 and I am in a quandary with this load. I have Lymans 49th, Hornadys 9th, Lees 2nd, and 2017 Hodgons annual manual. I have varget powder, hornady 150gr fmj-bt bullets, mostly 7.62x51 cases fired in my weapon,cci #34 primers.Hornady shows35.9-44.9-Hodgons show 44.0-47.0-Lymans shows 42.5-47.0 and Lee shows 44.0-47.0.I am looking at loads mid range mostly, 100-150 yards target shooting. And maybe shtf ammo.
Hornady is using the exact bullet I have,but the others show 150gr bullets. Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

[25-5]

I have the 48th Lyman and it has no service rifle loads so I use the Hornady 9th 308 Winchester Service Rifle info. I use Varget and the 168gr A-Max for my best results. The two 4895's are probably the most go to powders, but I like Varget so far.
Use the 155gr A-Max info and start below max. I ended up at the 42.7gr Varget for my most accurate sub MOA, but that's my rifle a Springfield M1A NM. The Sierra Match King is another popular bullet.
BTW I don't drop powder I weigh each load.

 

[Blue68f100]

I like using the bullet or powder mfg data as first choice. If using NATO (mil) brass beware that some of this is heavier wall and will require the loads to be worked up from a lower starting point. You need to read the components used for the mfg test, case, primer, bullet, OAL.

My neighbor called me this last week and said he wanted me to look at his brass. He did a ladder work up in 0.5 gr increments. Since he did not have a brass catcher he did not examine the brass till after shooting it in his AR-10 (308W). All the primers were blown and flatten worst than a penny on a RR tie that's been ran over with a train. He brought his gun. I removed the bolt and had to drive the FP retainer out with a punnh and hammer. The solid pin was bent badly. Then about 20 small primer disk fell out. He was very lucky it did not hit him with hot gases coming back through the BCG. I checked his load data, he was right. Then I checked case volume weight against some commercial I had around. The LC brass he had was 12.5% heavier, which meant the starting load was over max. The brass and primers indicted that. I also checked the primers cup thickness to make sure he did not grab pistol primers by mistake, he didn't. I had to order new FP & FP Retainer to get his gun back in operation again.

So if you have LC or other mil brass compare the weights to see if there all running in the same ball park.. I had warned him several time that he need to do some volume checks when using mil brass. I have some that I had to back off due to high pressure signs, but I was examining all my brass as I fired them. So soon as I saw HP signs I stopped and reduced my loads from what i determine was Max. Then worked up my loads.

With your M1A you have to be very careful with what powders you use. Or you will damage the gun. Some of the manuals have a Service Rifle section that is designed for gas operated guns. I don't have one so I'm not going to recommend anything and let someone who has help you out.

 

[jmr40]

I load 46.5-47 gr of Varget behind various 150 gr bullets from Hornady, Berger, Lapua, and Nosler with MOA or better accuracy and speeds 2820-2850 fps. I would back off at least 1 gr with Federal or LC brass.

 

[Nature Boy]

I load 46.5-47 gr of Varget behind various 150 gr bullets from Hornady, Berger, Lapua, and Nosler with MOA or better accuracy and speeds 2820-2850 fps. I would back off at least 1 gr with Federal or LC brass.

47g of Varget seems like a lot in an M1A withiout some disclaimer attached..

Hummmm, I may have started a thread on that subject

 

[marineshooter]

Thanks for the replys. Hornady 9 says 35.9-44.9. My cases are almost LC brass. So I am guessing that a good starting point would be 40. I don't have a chronograph so I am not looking at max loads or warp velocity. I am unclear why some books say 44.9 is max and others say 47 is max and they are compressed loads.Just trying to understand why such a large difference in charges with different manuals.

 

[frankmako]

varget is a good powder for the 308. i like varget and it has gotten to be my go to powder and will be my go to powder when i finish my last 8 pound jug of irm 4895. first buy yourself a chronograph. they are cheap. you don't need the top of the line, just need to know how fast the bullet is going. second, you don't have to go fast to have something that works. i keep my match loads in 308, 7-308, 30-06 around 2,500 fps for the ram loads and around 2,200 fps for the other targets. i get the best groups and don't get beat up in two 40 rounds matches in the same day when i keep the speed down. load data is a good guide line for a starting point. military brass is thicker and they will tell you do reduce your starting load. i use nothing but military brass (lc match and lc nm brass from early 80) in several match rifles and since i don't load the max i never gave it much.

 

[Charlie98]

Also understand the M1a is brutal on brass, each case will need to be inspected after each firing for cracks just above the case head, along with the usual suspects (case length.)

Differences in load data can be traced to any number of variables used in testing by each entity, not limited to... test barrel, barrel length, primer, brass, bullet construction, temperature, etc, etc.

 

[Nature Boy]

Also understand the M1a is brutal on brass,

Mine isn’t. I’ll get a ding on the rim but that’s about it. I’ve been getting 10 reloads out of my LC brass but I’m not hot rodding my loads

 

[Charlie98]

Mine isn’t. I’ll get a ding on the rim but that’s about it. I’ve been getting 10 reloads out of my LC brass but I’m not hot rodding my loads

I think everyone's experience is different. I don't hot-rod my loads, either, but I've had a fair amount of case failures using once-fired LC (and a few other military headstamped) brass. The OP mentioned he was using LC, too, and if it's once-fired (military) he won't have any idea what it was fired in previously.

 

[Slamfire]

First of all, you don't want maximum level, bolt gun appropriate loads, in your M1a. You put too much pressure down the gas system, you will have failures to extract, and possible bolt over rides. And it will be hard on the rifle.

In my opinion, life is some much better with an M1a pushing a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps than at 2800 fps. This load, though it is not Varget, is just about perfect for an M1a.

M1a, Douglas Barrel

150 gr Hornady FMJBT 43.5 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC WLR OAL 2.785
18 May 2008 T = 70 °F

Ave Vel = 2700
Std Dev = 30
ES = 85
High = 2736
Low = 2651
N = 10

I examined my 168 Match data, I think a load around 44.0 grains Varget will be close to a maximum load with a 150. My experience with Varget was that it was a bit slow for a M1a, I experienced case head separations, which is an indication the powder is too slow for the gas system in that rifle. I do know of others who have used Varget, so, maybe Varget is on the edge of being marginal in M1a's. It is a great bolt gun powder. I really recommend the 4895 powders in the M1a. That is, IMR 4895, H4895, or AA2495. The US Army developed the T65 cartridge with IMR 4895, and all the National Match ammunition was loaded with IMR 4895. I am of the opinion that this powder should be the first choice, and then, try IMR 3031, which is a bit faster. The slowest I would go is IMR 4064. And, keep this in mind again, you are loading for function and reliability, not speed in this rifle. Leave the hot rodding to bolt guns.

 

[leadbury]

its good to measure the brass from your gas rifles with a gauge after firing ( I like the rcbs case mic a lot-easy to use) for adjusting the full length resizing die. You need to set the case shoulder back say .003" so rounds chamber easily. The M1a can expand the brass .007" or so ,you don't necessarily have to squeeze it all the way back down to "zero" sammi specs.This helps extend brass life due to overworking ( case head separations worst case) Wok up an accuracy load for your gun by varying powder weights-results can be amazing.

 

[Charlie98]

The US Army developed the T65 cartridge with IMR 4895, ... and then, try IMR 3031, which is a bit faster. The slowest I would go is IMR 4064.

Those are the three powders I use in both my M1a and my Savage bolt gun. If you can't get it done with those 3, you have problems... with 145-168grn bullets, anyway.