.308 for Mule Deer and Elk?

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165 grain Nosler Partitions seem to work OK on mule deer out of a .308, but I am weary of the .308 on elk, even little Colorado ones.

Too many times I've had them stumble on when their vitals had been shot to pieces.

Elk are tough; you will probably want to use something larger caliber if you have it, terrain allowing.


Let me amend that: Nosler Partitions kill mule dear dead! Nothing wrong at all with the other loads mentioned here.
 
Nope, don't have an ATV... wish I had one though to save some time! Luckily, my current work situation allows me to go out on the weekdays, so I'll have a bit more time to trek back deeper in this year, and not be in such a hurry.

Just to say, though, I love my dad's Rem 700 BDL in 30'06. Beautiful, reliable, accurate. I'm enjoying getting to know this M1a though. Feels like I can use it in a lot more situations than that Remington.

I've been using Nosler Partitions on deer for a bit now, and they sure do kill them quick. Just didn't know if they were as effective on Mule deer. Glad to hear they are effective.
 
I've been here for 2 years and I did finally get a doe antelope tag (6 day season), and I got a leftover deer tag for Nov 3-9 after not getting drawn again for the regular draw. That's only 1 animal for the season and you can only draw for 1 of the 3 seasons. Deer and elk seasons are broke up into 3-7 day seasons. That's it for the man that doesn't qualify for "RANCHING FOR WILDLIFE". That allows a "RANCHER" (I think 264 acres or more) to hunt for 90days, I think the months of Oct, Nov, Dec.
No one out here does Dove Fields either. Most haven't even heard of hunting doves. The ones that do hunt doves just set up near some natural flight path. I wish I could get a field of milo and/or sunflowers and show these guys what a real dove hunt is all about.
I'm in Colorado Springs btw.
 
Birdbustr read your DOW manual a little more you have 3 choices per season on big game. Unless you are dead set on a certain area then make sure you fill out all of your choices and options. I have only failed to draw for a deer tag once and never for an elk tag. Also another overlooked option for a lot of Colorado people is plains deer it has a longer season and if you are willing to put in the miles and homework you can find some good private land to hunt out east. If you live in the Springs you have to drive to hunt get used to it. If you are looking for dove hunting the closest place I can think of is Pueblo state wildlife area. Other than that head out east and you will find your sunflower and milo fields. Also look in to the new walk in access program for pheasants and geese for the winter. I agree that Colorado is pricier than back east but if you look in to it there is a lot more public land available to hunt out there than back east. I too live in the Springs and routinely drive two hours to go hunting. Yeah it sucks but I have gotten used to it now all I need is a four wheel drive that get's forty miles to the gallon and will haul me the dog the decoys and a couple of buddies to the field while towing a 20 foot boat.
 
You can still only draw for 1-7 day season for the year for deer/elk combined and then the six day antelope season. Having to work if you are "essential personnel" further narrows those days down. 7 days out of an entire year is just not enough in my opinion.
I might have to check out Pueblo for the doves. I also saw that Lamar is having a dove shoot on the 1st.
 
I was just on the website today looking at walk in hunting areas. That looks pretty intriguing. Yep, its more expensive out here, but I'm seeing quite a bit more places to hunt on public land. I'm actually getting fairly excited about the upcoming small game and upland game season. Birdbustr, if you ever want to hook up and try to slam some doves, give me a call. I was just down at the Springs yesterday, enjoying the grill at Ensonada. I'd be willing to drive a bit out east for those milo/sunflower fields, or else try out that Pueblo wildlife area.

Its a very different hunting culture out here, but I'm seeing a lot to get excited about. Just need to learn the lay of the land.

As for those leftover tags, I needed to submit for those as well several months ago, right?

Whats up with the pheasant/grouse hunting here? I've been driving out to South/North Dakota or Nebraska for several years now, but would like to find some here in Colorado. Is most of that back out east?
 
You can call the number on the site to see if you there are any left. There is a walk-in area at Turkey Creek that I checked out last week. It's the only one in El Paso County, but it's 8,800 acres. I don't think there is more than 5 trees on the whole place, but the DOW has put up some windmills that have watertroughs under them. There may be some some doves coming in and out, but they don't even open the gates until Sept 1. I don't know about the grouse/pheasant, but they are supposed to live out here wild.
Those milo and sunflower fields would be nice. When my dad used to prep a field he would start by plowing a few strips at 7 days before the season, then 4 days, and then the day before. We had doves on us like flies. At this point, I'm just trying to find a reasonable priced pay field. No luck yet, but I'll be sure to let you know if I do find one.
By the way, Fort Carson is nearby and may be worth scouting out for some doves, pheasants, etc.
 
You will have to go through the class on Carson to hunt. It is basically their own hunter safety/range rules. There are no pheasants but their is some quail down on the south end. Pueblo SWA is also decent for quail early in the year. Is Turkey Creek the area down by the power plant or is it down 115 towards Penrose. If you are in to coyote hunting there is a place called Squirrel Creek SWA in eastern ElPaso county that has quite a few running through it. You might want to ventur out there to scout out the Dove situation as well I know there is some watering holes as well as some surrounding ranch land but I am not sure about row crops. Just a few options for you guys.
 
Gaiudo

The mount is a Sadlak titanium - which is a modified Brookfield. It's the best I've foun, and I have tried them all. The Nikon Tactical, now called the Monarch X IIRC, is great glass. This one is not the MilDot, and I picked it up very cheap - around $600 IIRC. It's actually got slightly better glass than my Leupold MkIV M3. At one time I had it on my 40X, but I decide to upgrade that to a USO ST-10, and the 2.5-10x seemed perfect for the M1A.

Here's the Sadlak mount

sadlak.jpg


The Karsten Cheeck piece is a great add on for the scoped M1A, at about $60 bucks. If you can drill a couple of holes, you can install it easily.

Here's the rifle when I had it in the JAE-100. The best M1A stock bar none, but heavy.

jae-100.jpg
 
Guntech, one word:


DROOOOL....

How long of a wait were those Sadlak's? And whats the difference between those and the Smith ones? Both look very well built, and are priced similarly from what I've seen (as in, pricey, but worth it).

PM sent as well
 
"...better suggestion for a dedicated hunting scope..." 2.5x to 8x. Or thereabouts. A 10x won't focus well at close range. The field of view is too small as well.
"...I am weary of the .308 on elk..." As in leery? There's no elk on Earth that a properly placed 165 grain .30 calibre hunting bullet won't kill.
 
Though I would not hesitate to use my .308s on any deer species, I probably would favor a hot, premium loading when using the .308 for elk. Yes, many elk have been killed with a .30-30, and probably even the lowly .243. But, when I just paid hundreds of bucks for a tag, and hiked my skinny butt off while covering 15 miles a day, I want to be packing a round that will allow a less-than-perfect shot scenario.

Using a normal cup-and-core bullet, the only shot you ought to take on that elk is a broadside lung shot.

Using a premium bullet, loaded hot (e.g. Federal's 180gr High Energy Partition elk load), you can have some more flexibility. It would suck to wound an elk, or not be able to take a shot, because I saved $10 at the checkout counter.

The downside is, most M1A variants cannot take the pounding of a high-energy load. That's the real reason you hardly ever see them in the woods of ColoWyoUtah -- they're pressure-limited. You do occasionally see them on the plains hunting speed goats, or in the the woods in a .30-06 configuration.

Best of luck!
Rich
 
The place I was talking about is the squirrel creek area. It's in Eastern El Paso of of Squirrel Creek Rd and Peyton Hwy. Anything to get outdoors. If I get a few doves that will be a bonus. I'm not expecting anything like what I am used to in South Carolina. Dove hunting is a serious matter the first Saturday in September. Of course, you can't hunt in the morning on opening day. It starts at noon due to so many birds were getting shot in the morning.
I haven't been able to dove hunt in the last 2 years due to deployment and workups.
Quicktime: Are you going to be home for any of this hunting season?
 
I plan on using my 30-06 Ruger No 1 for elk. My preferred bullet is 168gn Barnes TSX, but it won't funtion reliably in the M1A. Then again, I have no trouble putting a 165gn SGK into the 3 inch gong at 300 yards with the M1A.

Gaiudo,

Brownells has the Sadlak titanium in stock. All their steel mounts are going to the sandbox. If you want one, talk to me first as I get them at dealer cost. The Smith is decent, but is heavier and requires an additional tool.

I find the 10x fixed is great from about 200 yards out. It seems like too much at anything less. The SuperSniper will focus down to 50 yards, so you can use it. I used a fixed power 10X last year on my 40X with good effect.

deer.jpg
 
Anyone had much luck with the Barnes 180gr. all copper TSX bullet? The reloading book says that 47.5 grains of AA 2520 should push it at 2669fps. I don't know how much this would tax the M1a, however.

Whatcha shooting there on that whitetail, Guntech? Nice looking gun.

Since I missed the drawing date for this year (unless I want to buy an over-the-counter elk tag for $500 bucks... and I don't), I've heard good things about Wyoming's antelope hunts. $40, or so its rumored?! After an entire day spent at hunting shops today, I'm confident that I can spend the rest of this year with plenty of time in the field, be it Colorado or Wyoming.
 
TSX just won't work in M1As. I made many calls to Barnes about this. Apparently, it's too 'slippery' and reduces port pressure to the point it won't always cycle.

It is not recommended to shoot heavy bullets in the M1A. Heavies can lead to a dangerous early unlock condition, which is the reason for the groove in the NM piston. If you manage to get TSX to work, let me know. I could only get semi-reliable functioning by going to a very heavy loading of BL-C(2).

I have not tried MRX yet.
 
BTW, are you looking at 308 loads, or 7.62x51mm loads? The latter is loaded to a lower peak and working pressure. Loading to 7.62 pressures, I can get 165 gn bullets to just over 2600 from a 22 inch bbl.
 
Great hunting caliber.

.308 on a Tule Elk, cow, 430lb. Used a Rem Core Lokt PSP. Didn't use my M1A since I couldn't find 7.62 hunting rounds, and I wanted a hunting specific bullet, like the Core Lokt. I used a R700 instead.

I thought that there was general agreement that modern 308 hunting rounds generated chamber pressures that varied from marginal to dangerous when used in milsurp weapons such as the M1A pattern?

I can produce a few different URL's with this discussion, including a few from THR.

If I was confident that frequently digesting potentially hotter hunting rounds wouldn't discomode my M1A, I would happily take it to the field.
 
I definitely wouldn't put a hot round in my M1A.

Max SAAMI pressure on 308 is around 62,000psi, 7.62x51mm is about 55,000 (3800 bar, IIRC). It doesn't help that the pressure is measured differently in the two rounds.

Most commercial 308 ammo is probably safe, unless you have a long chamber. If your headspace is over 1.636, don't use commercial brass - it's not strong enough

I don't think I would go much over 44 gn of 2520 in commercial brass. I stick with Winchester, as it has a good volume and is also strong. Remington brass doesn't seem to help up well in my M1A. Federal is too soft, and primer pockets get loose after a couple of firings.
 
GAIUDO - "Is there a problem with the M1a on deer?"

Nope, nor on elk, either, so long as you shoot well.

My only problem with the M1a, for me, is the weight.

I've hunted the mountains of Colo. quite a few times, and would not want to tote that much weight around. Seems the mountains here in the Rocky Mountain west get a little higher and steeper each year. :)

If you don't mind the extra weight of the M1a, go for it, and good luck.

L.W.
 
Guntech, who makes a 7.62 in a hunting round? I've only shot 7.62 milsurp stuff.

Does the NM piston allow greater pressures than the normal issue? And can you use .308 brass to load 7.62 bullets?

Thanks
 
Gaiudo, there are beaucoup hunting loadings in .308. For deer, any old 150-grain will do; the only reason for any one particular brand/style is how it groups from your rifle.

Sustained repetitive use of higher-pressure cartridges can hurt an operating rod, but the small number used in basic sight-in and shooting at Bambi won't hurt anything.

Art
 
BTW, are you looking at 308 loads, or 7.62x51mm loads? The latter is loaded to a lower peak and working pressure. Loading to 7.62 pressures, I can get 165 gn bullets to just over 2600 from a 22 inch bbl.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've got many options for loading the .308 rounds, however, GunTech had asked whether I was loading .308 or 7.62 loads. I'm not sure whether he means using .308 brass, .308 bullets, etc., and wherein lies the difference. I know there is a difference between the pressures on a .308 vs. 7.62 load, but not sure where that comes into play in the reloading process.

However, I can see where having the lower pressures in the 7.62 round would be attractive, as far as the oprod goes.

Nick
 
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