.308 Garand NOT an import???

[Vic]

Posted at Gunbroker.com with a $995 "buy it now" option. Has a couple of "un-identified" proofs after the drawing number and date on barrel. The block is aluminum and stamped .308 (I asked him).



Description for Item # 47013415


Springfield Garand in .308 cal,has NM slide and sights,serial# 4272XXX,barrel date 3-52,marked 7.62 NATO M1A1,i believe this is a Navy conversion,bore is mint,No import marks

Anyone buy this? I'm no expert, but I'm smart enough to listen to you guys, and I wouldn't bite. As you can see by the serial, it's a post WWII SA.

 

[Onmilo]

It could be a Navy trophy rifle but without the paperwork and shipping carton that point is pretty well moot.
I have had the pleasure of handling a couple of genuine Navy Trophy rifles and the spacer on 7.62X51 caliber rifles is white nylon, not aluminum.
I do own a .308 M1 garand with an aluminum spacer block.
I bought the spacer from Brownells 3 or 4 years ago to replace a nylon spacer that fell apart.

4.2 Springfields are not that common and neither are Military, non-chamber insert barrels.
$995.00 would be a fair price especially if the dealer offers inspection and return privledges.

 

[Vic]

In any case...

If the barrel has proofs other than a DOD acceptance eagle with stars...it would have to be an import. Maybe not a "blue sky" or "arlington ordnance", but still an import none the less. I expect it may be lend-lease proofs from another country, and it ended up getting shipped back, sold on the CMP. You are right though, no paperwork or box, I think it's too pricy for what it is. It's all moot because it's not going to sell let alone make the reserve price he put on it. Since I can order a NIB from Springfield all NM for a couple hundred more, that would be an easy choice (under warranty too). I don't think it would rate very high on a list of a dedicated collector. My father-in-law remembers when you could get them for $150.00 a pop. I told him he should have bought 2000 of them (retirement money). His response..."hindsight is always 20/20".

 

[Swampy]

Guys,

With a barrel date of 3-52 that would mean it almost HAS to have an insert.....

Nobody made 7.62 Nato M1 barrels until the late 50's or early 60's. .... and if it has an insert I don't think it can be a trophy rifle. Am I right here or wrong???

Just questioning......

Swampy

Garands forever

 

[Vic]

2 hours to go...

Price is at $825 and the reserve has not been met. Price went alot higher than I expected. I figured it would have stopped around the $650 range give or take. I'll watch it to the end but my money says it won't sell and he'll re-list. It's fun to watch anyway.

 

[Onmilo]

Swampy, that 52 date barrel should be a bushed barrel.
7.62X51 chambered barrels are dated 1965 or later.

I am under the impression that Trophy rifles were issued with both bushed chamber barrels and as chambered barrels until around 1977-78 when 7.62X51 chambered barrels were used exclusively on the Trophy rifles.
The original peened chamber inserts did shoot loose but the Navy began to silver solder the inserts in place in the mid or late 1950s and they worked acceptably well.
When those soldered barrels began to wear out in the mid 1960s it didn't make any sense to replace the barrels with new bushed barrels because stocks of .30/06 barrels were beginning to dry up in Navy inventory so contracts for new, as chambered, barrels were accepted.

The suggestion to not fire a chamber insert barrel hinges on the fact that no markings were applied to bushed barrels identifying them as peened chamber or soldered chamber and if one doesn't know, one should not fire the weapon.

As I said in my original post, it COULD be a Navy Trophy rifle.(soldered chamber insert barrel.),
Without that all important paperwork and shipping carton the point is moot.
I apologize for not clarifying in my original post.

 

[Vic]

He relisted...

Ended at $825 with reserve not met. He relisted and a reserve of $850 that has been met. After reading about peened and soldered barrel bushings, I'm tickled with my 7.62 from Arlington Ordnance having a 7.62 Nato commercial barrel which has proven to be very accurate, and functions flawlessly. A lot cheaper than an M1A even though it only holds 8 rounds. If I'm not mistaken, we won a world war on an 8 round en-bloc magazine. Since I'm not into "spray and pray", the 8 rounds are acceptable and I use a 5/2 combo for DEER.

 

[drsteve]

I also have a 7.62 from Arlington Ordnance with a Nato commercial barrel. With the right ammo it is also very accurate and functions flawlessly as well. It is so much fun to have one of my Garands chambered for the 7.62 NATO round.

 

[buttrap]

I was under the impression that most navy convertions had 7.62 engraved by a electri-pen on the actions? and all had a white nylon spacer in the mag area?

 

[Vic]

"most" would be correct...

I did some reading on the 7.62 Garand. They did barrel some of them in 7.62 x 51 but not a lot....
U.S. Army Designation U.S. Navy Designation Description
M1E1 N/A M1 Garand variant; w/ modified cam angle in op-rod
M1E2 N/A M1 Garand variant; w/ prismatic scope and mount
M1E3 N/A M1 Garand variant; w/ roller added to bolt’s cam lug (later adapted for use in the M14)
M1E4 N/A M1 Garand variant; gas cut-off and expansion system w/ piston integral to op-rod
M1E5 N/A M1 Garand variant; 18-inch barrel and folding stock
M1E6 N/A M1 Garand variant; sniper variant
M1E7/M1C N/A M1E6 Garand variant; sniper variant w/ M81 scope (though the M82 or M84 scope could be used) on a Griffin and Howe mount
M1E8/M1D N/A M1E7 Garand variant; sniper variant w/ M82 scope (though the M84 scope could be used) on a Springfield Armory mount
M1E9 N/A M1 Garand variant; similar to M1E4, w/ piston separate from op-rod
M1E10 N/A M1 Garand variant; variant with the “Ljungman” direct gas system
M1E11 N/A M1 Garand variant; short-stroke Tappet gas system
M1E12 N/A M1 Garand variant; gas impingement system
M1E13 N/A M1 Garand variant; “White” gas cut-off and expansion system
M1E14 Mk 2 Mod 0 M1 Garand variant; rechambered in .30 T65/7.62 × 51 mm NATO w/ press-in chamber insert
T20 N/A M1 Garand variant; select-fire conversion by John Garand, capable of using BAR magazines
T20E1 N/A T20 variant; uses its own type of magazines
T20E2 N/A T20 variant; E2 magazines will work in BAR, but not the reverse
T20E2HB N/A T20E2 variant; HBAR variant
T22 N/A M1 Garand variant; select-fire conversion by Remington, magazine-fed
T22E1 N/A T22 variant; unknown differences
T22E2 N/A T22 variant; unknown differences
T22E3 N/A T22 variant; unknown differences; uses T27 fire control
T26 N/A M1 Garand variant; 18-inch barrel and standard stock
T27 N/A Remington field select-fire conversion for M1 Garand; ability to convert issue M1 Garands to select-fire rifles; fire control setup used in T22E3
T35 Mk 2 Mod 2 M1 Garand variant; rebarreled for .30 T65/7.62 × 51 mm NATO
T36 N/A T20E2 variant; T20E2 rechambered for .30 T65/7.62 × 51 mm NATO using T35 barrel and T25 magazine
T37 N/A T36 variant; same as T36, except in gas port location
[edit]
Descendants
As stated earlier, the M1 Garand was the direct predecessor of the M14 rifle that replaced it. Beretta used their manufacturing knowledge to develop several variants similar to the M14 but more closely based on the M1 Garand, and Ruger produced the Mini-14 rifle, which utilizes a reduced-size operating system and a different gas system. The AK-47 also utilizes the M1 Garand bolt and locking system: the Kalashnikov team simply placed the operating rod on top of the barrel rather than underneath. The AK-47 also uses a highly simplified form of the Garand trigger group. Thus, it appears that the Russian design was heavily influenced by the success of the American weapon.

Despite similarities in naming, there is no relationship between the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine. Additional confusion may come from the adoption of several other "M1" weapons, such as the M1 Thompson submachine gun and M1 Abrams tank.

[edit]
Civilian use
United States citizens meeting certain qualifications may purchase U.S. Military surplus M1 Garand rifles through the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), a not-for-profit corporation created by Congress in the early part of the 20th century to promote rifle skills in case of future war. Recently, the CMP has branched out to promote firearms safety training and competition. Military surplus Garands and post-war copies made for the civilian market are popular among enthusiasts.

[edit]
Misconceptions
One of the most widespread myths concerning the Garand rifle is that its "en-bloc" clips could not be ejected by any other means except shooting the rifle until all ammunition was expended. As mentioned earlier, partially or completely loaded clips could be ejected relatively easily from the rifle. However, many may argue that this portrayal is more or less correct, since the "clip latch" reload was usually not done in the battlefield (also noted earlier).

Dont take this as gospel, it may be in-accurate in some accounts.

Country United States of America
Type Service rifle
Inventor John C. Garand
Date of design 1924
Service duration 1936–1957
Cartridge .30-06 Springfield (7.62 × 63 mm),
.276 Pedersen,
7.62 × 51 mm NATO (U.S. Navy)
Action Gas-operated, rotating bolt
Rate of fire Semi-automatic
Muzzle velocity 865 m/s (2,837 ft/s)
Effective range 550 m (601 yd)
Weight (unloaded) 4.3 kg (9 lb 10 oz)
Length 1,100 mm (43.6 in)
Barrel length 610 mm (24 in)
Feed system 8-round "en-bloc" clip (.30-06);
10-round "en-bloc" clip (.276)
Sights Aperture rear sight, barleycorn-type front sight
Variants M1C/D sniper rifle
Number built 5.4 million approx.

 

[ocabj]

It's probably just your standard CMP purchased rifle (service grade or less) rebarrelled for .308.

CMP rack grade + brand new commercial .308 barrel of your choice and installation = less than $700.

When it comes to buying uncommon Garand variants, it's best to go through someone like Scott Duff. You pay a premium when you get it through him, but you're also paying for the inspection and research to verify the authenticity of the rifle.

 

[Vic]

Garand variants...

I agree with the above. If you want collectors grade, buy it through a reputable source. If you are selling a collector grade, you better be able to prove it's authenticity. Some how, I dont think the statement " I think it's a Navy conversion" qualifies it as authentic. The point I'm making is basically this. TRUTH IN ADVERTISEMENT. Most garands are simply CMP's that most likely do not have the box or paperwork anymore. Most have some type of minor pitting on the reciever if they have a WWII serial number but generally still look excellent and shoot excellent if you take the time to work with them and you have the cash to give them a facelift. Both my 06 and my 7.62 look every bit like they just came out of the Springfield factory, and are capable of producing sub 1/2 groups at 100yds using open sights and smaller groups if I scoped them. I'm just lucky enough to have a 1941 and a 1943 which are both Springfields that almost look like I ordered them from Mil-Tec.