308 Lapua Palma

[Allen in MT]

ready to load some 308 Lapua Palma brass. Got it all FL resized. this is the small primer stuff and is there any reason to NOT use Fed205M primers behind 39.5gns of 4895 pwdr. Loading the 186gn SMK's. Is there a better primer for this load.
shooting steel out to 1000 yds.
thanks

 

[Swampman]

I'm unfamiliar with the 186 grain .308 diameter MatchKing.

If you're talking about the 168 grain MatchKings, I doubt that 39.5 grains of either IMR or H4895 will get you anywhere near 1000 yards at supersonic velocity, no matter what primer or barrel length you use.

 

[farmerboy78]

I use this brass as well, in my 5r milspec. I use the 175gr nosler CC, lapua Palma brass, cci srp, 44.5gr varget.

 

[Reloadron]

If this is in fact a 168 grain Sierra Match King and you are loading 39.5 grains of IMR 4895 I see your velocity around 2450 FPS from a 26" 1:12 bolt gun based on Sierra data. Should this be the case, I agree with Swampman in that your bullets will go sub sonic before reaching out 1,000 yards. You want to keep your bullet well above 1126 FPS out to 1,000 yards so figure 1200 FPS. Federal .308 Match using 168 grain BTHP match bullets out of a 26" barrel will get you about 1170 FPS with a muzzle velocity of about 2600 FPS. I would be looking at powders which can give you around 2700 FPS at the muzzle with a 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP.

The guy who would be good at this is Bart so hopefully he will find this thread. What I have here is pure speculation as I have not shot 1,000 yards using .308 with small primers. %00 and 600 is my maximum where staying supersonic is much easier.

Ron

 

[Bart B.]

I tried Federal small rifle primers in Remington BR .308 Win cases. Lots of hang fires. Remington 7-1/2 primers go bang nicely even in cold weather. So does Tulammo (formerly PMC then Wolf) small rifle primers. 42 to 43 gr of 4895 is max.

4895 has not proved its worth in 308Win cases with bullets 160 grains and heavier. Yet excellent for 145 to 155 gr. bullets, accuracy wise.

44 grains of IMR4064 under Sierra 168's was a standard max load for 1:11 and 1:12 twist 22" to 26" barrels at 1000 yards. Shot many and worked well with case and primer listed above.

A better load would use Sierra 175's with 43 grains of 4064 with large rifle primers. As would 42 grains of IMR4064 under Sierra 190 HPMK bullets; set enough records and match wins to be the favorite from 1:11 twist barrels.

The loads were with 150-gr. thin wall match cases. Use a grain less in 160 to 170 grain cases.

 

[Allen in MT]

If this is in fact a 168 grain Sierra Match King and you are loading 39.5 grains of IMR 4895 I see your velocity around 2450 FPS from a 26" 1:12 bolt gun based on Sierra data. Should this be the case, I agree with Swampman in that your bullets will go sub sonic before reaching out 1,000 yards. You want to keep your bullet well above 1126 FPS out to 1,000 yards so figure 1200 FPS. Federal .308 Match using 168 grain BTHP match bullets out of a 26" barrel will get you about 1170 FPS with a muzzle velocity of about 2600 FPS. I would be looking at powders which can give you around 2700 FPS at the muzzle with a 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP.

The guy who would be good at this is Bart so hopefully he will find this thread. What I have here is pure speculation as I have not shot 1,000 yards using .308 with small primers. %00 and 600 is my maximum where staying supersonic is much easier.

Ron

the 39.5 gns was where I left off working on a load and yes it did chrony slow This was with hornady and win brass but I happened to come across 100 new lapua palma cases and thought I would switch to it and the small fed primers. At this point I was zeroing at 200 yds and planed to go to 1000 so still working up loads, but sounds like I should look at other powders. 26" barrel 12 twist
thanks

 

[Allen in MT]

I'm unfamiliar with the 186 grain .308 diameter MatchKing.

If you're talking about the 168 grain MatchKings, I doubt that 39.5 grains of either IMR or H4895 will get you anywhere near 1000 yards at supersonic velocity, no matter what primer or barrel length you use.

yes they are 168 smk's and will be looking at other powders also
thanks

 

[farmerboy78]

I use varget, great velocity and accuracy in the .308 with the 175gr. If I remember right, my handloads are warm by most standards, but I didn't see pressure signs til near 45.5gr using the Palma cases. And muzzle velocity of 2740 from my 24" 5r milspec <1/2 moa

 

[Reloadron]

44 grains of IMR4064 under Sierra 168's was a standard max load for 1:11 and 1:12 twist 22" to 26" barrels at 1000 yards. Shot many and worked well with case and primer listed above.

I would be looking around there. Once you get to 44.5 grains you are pushing the maximum. The trick, if there is a trick, is to get enough velocity at the start to have the bullet still super sonic at the 1,000 yard line. Varget is another good powder but I am not sure you can get the velocity to maintain super sonic at 1,000 yards. A powder I have had real good success with is AA 2495 but like Varget I could never get it to perform well out to 1,000 yards. IMR 4064is pretty much the proven powder, it just works. Other powders I like for long distance are VihtaVuori N150 and N550, AA 2520, and RE12 but again IMR 4064 is the darling over decades.

The 175 grain and 180 grain Sierra Match King bullets are a few more favorites out beyond my 500 to 600 yard comfort zones and I have always been fond of the 175 grain Match Kings. They seem to offer great stability for those who wish to reach way out and touch a target. I have had real nice results with them with IMR 4064 but never tried to get them out to 1,000 yards.

Ron

 

[Swampman]

The 168 grain Matchking has a ballistic coefficient of .462, it's a very easy to load bullet and my favorite for 600 yard shooting, but there's no way I can use them at 1000 yards through my 20 inch barrel .308.

I've had much better luck at 1000 yards with the 155 grain Lapua Scenar with its .508 BC and the Sierra 155 grain Palma MatchKing with a BC of .504.

The 175 grain Sierra MatchKing is a very good long range bullet with its BC of .504, but it's difficult for me to push it fast enough from a 20 inch barrel to keep it supersonic at 1000 yards.

The more modern and aerodynamic 155 grain bullets can be pushed a lot faster, with less recoil, than the current "old school" 168's and 175's and their BC'S are as good or better than the older, heavier designs.

 

[USSR]

Allen in MT,

When I was shooting in 1,000 yard F Class Competition, I was spotting for a guy who was using 168SMK's. It was ugly. His bullet were going transonic at 1k, and without the "crack", the poor guys tending his target in the pits had no idea when he shot. We had to constantly have the range official call down to the pit crew and have them pull his target down and check it. Don't use the 168SMK for 1k shooting.

Don

 

[Bart B.]

I've shot M852 7.62 NATO match ammo with Sierra 168's from Garands at 1000 yards. Bullets snapped loud going over the safety berm; proof they were supersonic. Pulled targets for others shooting the same rifles and ammo. Good scores, too, using a 24" barrel with 1:12 twist and .3078" groove diameters. Enough smaller than the .3082" diameter bullets to increase pressures as they went into the rifling. Probably left a bit over 2700 fps.

 

[Allen in MT]

looks like I will be looking at some IMR 4064 and varget load data for pushing the 308 out to 1000 yd
thanks for the replies