308 Overpressure Issues?

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pleopard

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I recently acquired a Tikka T3 Compact in 308 and have attempted to reload for it. I went according to the Nosler 2014 tables here for the 150g (I'm using Barnes TSX). I loaded rounds with 44g, 44.5g, 45g, 45.5g, and 46g IMR 4064 and fired them at a 100 yard target. I'm getting 1/4 MOA with the 46g BUT ... all loads, even the 44g loads are showing these signs ... Check out the following pics. Any ideas? Suggestions? It appears I can only create slower loads under 44g (2700FPS) no?

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What pressure signs am I looking at?

I see what appears to be a cracked or deeply scratched rim in the first photo.
But that isn't a pressure sign.
Maybe defective brass?
Or the extractor is chewing on it?

The second photo?
I can see nothing wrong there at all.

What do the fired primers look like?
Flat clear to the edge of the primer pocket?
Or still slightly rounded on the edge?

How hard is it to open the bolt?

rc
 
Rule no 1. You cannot take the load data for one bullet and then simply substitute another bullet, especially not a monometal.

You are lucky this time but you still should have no pressure problems unless you are seating real deep.
 
"...especially not a monometal..." Only a solid copper bullet like a TSX, otherwise you load for the bullet weight. Who made it doesn't matter.
Barnes, of course, doesn't put much data on their site. No IMR4064 data at all. They want you to buy their book. And Nosler only put their own products in their book.
In any case, your loads, despite being for a regular lead cored bullet(just happens to be a Nosler on Hodgdon's site too) are well within the range of IMR4064 loads for a 150. There shouldn't be any pressure issues at all. So unless you're having issues with the rifle(bolt hard to open, hard extractions, flat primers etc.) you're fine. Just don't use Nosler/Hodgdon data for Barnes' bullets. Contact Barnes or buy their manual for IMR4064 data.
 
Primer flow out to the edges of the pocket, extractor button imprint on the case head, pierced primers, primers falling out, case head separation with new, or properly resized once fired brass after firing are all considered worthy of consideration in this respect. But, if bolt lift isn't noticably resistant or stiff, it isn't always a high pressure situation.

As for your pcitures, I fail to see anything indicative of high pressures. Quite honestly, your pictures seem to do more to identify what a pocket and flash hole look like, but little else? In other words, what exactly are we supposed to be seeing?

For me, in my rifles, the primary factors by which I identify excessive pressures is-;

#1. stiff biolt when opening

#2. extractor button transfer marks, unless Remington brass or similar sift brass

#3. Primer flow completely out to the edges of the pocket. And this one is only because I use only one brand of primer that I have used for most of my 30+ yrs. of reloading, so I feel confident using this sign

#4 pierced primers, and again, because I know my primer brand. But I hav
e had as many as I can count on one hand the number that have gone that far over pressure ever.

#5. Unusually high fps over the chrony, but only if other supportive evidence as described above exists.

Now, as for the Barnes bullet you are usng, that bullet should be loaded using data specific to that bullet. But even when I've loaded using that bullet, I have rarely exsperienced more than just slightly higher pressures than with standard cup and core bullet data, but never anything I would consider excessive or over the top.

The single most idnentifiable pressure issue I experience with bottle neck, is the brass, which has been respoinsible for some exceiive pressures more than once over any other cause. It is when this happens once in a blue moon, that I know I inadvertantly let a piece of Frontier brass slip ny me unnoticed. This is also why I always sort and load bottle neck brass by head stamp, I don't mix bottle neck brass.

GS
 
As stated, copper bullets have different characteristics and different load data should be used.

Barnes bullets are longer for the same weight than conventional bullets, and they tend to shoot more accurately when they are seated deep and give a longer jump to the lands. It might possible that you are getting over pressure because you are jamming the bullets into the rifling when loading in the chamber.
 
I've shot many different cartridges with Barnes and other monometal copper/gilding metal bullets and have yet to have needed to change the powder charge.

Now regarding the Tikka. I happen to have one in 308 Winchester that I've recently been playing with using Hornady A-Max 168 gr. bullets. I had worked up the load to 45.5 grains of IMR 4064 and things went fine with resized Lake City and Winchester brass. Then I tried some new nickel plated Federal brass with the same load and the result was a blown primer.

I'm still working on the issue but I suspect the best load is probably around 43.0 grains with the new Federal nickel plated brass. My theorey is that even though the Lake City brass had been resized with a small base die, that the case volume was still larger than new brass. This is the first time I've ever experienced such a pressure difference between new and resized brass.
 
I only see the imprint of the shell holder from your single stage press where it pulled hard out of the resizing die.

I see a bulge where the thick part of the case starts, down towards the head.

The flash hole looks rather large but that may be the picture.

I don't really see anything else.
 
I don't see anything unusual in either of the photos.
The case head looks pristine (no brass flow at all)

What makes you think you're getting overpressure?
 
I don't know if its overpressure or not, hence the "?????" in the title. The head is bent at the Y in Hornady to the H in Match. The rim is deformed, it has an impression on it. If its an extractor problem it befuddles me because it happens on different brands of casings and the rifle is brand new. The primers didn't look overly flattened so I removed them
 
> I only see the imprint of the shell holder from your single stage press where it pulled hard out of the resizing die.

Hmmm ... yes it was difficult pulling it out of the resizer
 
...difficult pulling it out of the resizer...
1. What case sizing lube are you using ?
2. Is it the case itself that's hard to get out, or the neck expander at the end ?
 
Lee case lube

It's the neck ... Hard to press and hard to extract. Lee dies also

Casings are combo of Hornady match grade and rem core lockt
 
I only see the imprint of the shell holder from your single stage press where it pulled hard out of the resizing die.
This is what I also see.


O/P, With your statement of :
Hmmm ... yes it was difficult pulling it out of the resizer

I also believe what you're seeing on your case rims are not pressure signs from shooting, but damage from your shell holder due to pulling hard on the press ram
when extracting the sizing button out of the case neck. This also can happen when you don't use enough lube on the case and you pull hard on the ram to remove the case from the die. I've done this a few times over the years.

You need to lube the inside of your case necks. That should help. You can use a Q tip or I use a nylon brush with a light lubricant and run it into the case necks.
 
I'll try to get to the range and fire off a few more here in the next few days and see if lubing the case makes a difference, thanks for all the tips and help.

Also, just for fun, I resized a brand new, unused Hornady match grade casing. I do see light extractor markings on the rim, not as pronounced as the others but it didn't take as much force to resize it of course. Also, I am getting striations on the casing exterior as in the following pic. I went back to the other brass and examined them and saw similar faint striations on them also.

I understand that is from crap getting up inside the die, no?

Also, can't I just use a collet neck sizer like this since I am reloading brass for the same gun they were fired from?

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With regard to jamming into the lands or up to the lands, it has long been said that pressures will run higher. But from my firearms and over the last 30 yrs., I have yet to notice anything that would suggest this is a concern.

I only have one rifle that doesn't shoot more accurately with them up to the lands, it's an old M77 .280 Rem.. I have also found that FL sized brass tends to last longer with them jammed a bit. It prevents the lower portion of the case from stretching and is also a good method of forming new brass, or brass that has been fired from a different firearm, because it keeps the case head up against the bolt face.

GS
 
Also, can't I just use a collet neck sizer like this since I am reloading brass for the same gun they were fired from?

Yes, you can use a Lee Collet for a bolt action Rifle, but at some point, you will have to F/L resize the case. I use a Collet for a couple of my Target Bolt Rifles, but I don't Collet size more than 3 times then they get F/L sized and I keep careful records on how many times the case was Collet sized.

After you get a couple of Collet sized cases stuck in you chamber and have to beat on the bolt handle open with a stick, you'll understand.
 
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