308 Ruger American accuracy.

[castile]

The results are the same as yesterday. I checked to make sure the rails were tight, removed the rings and reinstalled them. I then put on the Nikon 4-12 scope. Made sure it was tight. Took a box of perfecta factory ammo[not the best but I can do 3 inch groups with it at 200 yards with my M1A all day long. ] and 20 hand loads with H414 150gr BTFMJ and 25 rounds of 150 gr BTFMJ over H335. all loaded to mid manual loading specs. All cases were RP or FC commercial cases trimmed and reamed and resized so die met collet. I can not think of anything else to do.



So at the range I set up targets at 50 feet, 100 and 200 yards. First shot at the 50yard target high and to the left. Adjusted second shot half inch to the left and half inch low, no adjustment and third shot touched the last shot, good enough to get on paper at 100 yards.



First shot 100 yards ? Nowhere to be found. Second shot High 6 inches and to the left. Adjusted and second shot was center and right about 6 inches. Next mag went out to 200 yds, First shot High and left, second low and right. Back to 100 I shot the rest of the rounds with out adjustment and would hit center left center right high right low left and then shots would be off the paper and I don't know where they went. I know its not the scope. Its the second new Nikon and the rings are steel Burris rings. All mounts are tight. The gun was sitting in a gun rest. Even if you say I am a poor shot, and my loads were crap this is outside what that would excuse. I can do 3 inch groups at 200 with my loads I have not really worked up to be accurate on my 223. My 3006 loads I can do 2 inches with my 03a3 Smith Corona iron sights at 100 yards all day long.



This has to be a gun problem. I have a RA to send it back to Ruger but will wait a few days to see what response I get from the forums.

 

[Cleveland48]

Also check your stock at the forearm. The ruger Americans are notorious for leaning against the barrel. I bought the american predator in 6.5 creedmoor and it was up against the barrel. These stocks are very flimsy. I went straight home sanded it way down and the next day it consistently shot .5" groups with hornady match. And .6 to .9 with several different reload combinations I worked up. The Americans need the action torqued for sure. To loose accuracy suffers. And another guy I know had his torqued way too tight and was experincing groups similar to yours.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Mine has been good, no stock-to-barrel contact.

Are you guys torquing your action screws properly?

 

[castile]

Well I checked the factory rails today because everyone said they come lose. I had checked them and they were tight when I put on the new Nikon. I tried to move them with my hand and they were tight, then I put on a star driver and actually snapped the star bit off before I got any movement in the screw its not the rails, scope or rings. Could I have horrible luck and two Nikon scopes are bad? sure but I doubt it. I took the rifle back to the range today with 10 150 gr hand loads over IMR 4064 with Winchester primer magnum and 10 Winchester factory loads and 10 NATO 762x51 loads. Best string was 3 shot group 100yds about 3 inches next one went 4 inches high and the next went 5 low. It is spraying bullets all over the map and as usual I was shooting with a rest similar to a lead sled 2 min between shots and before every shot I felt the barrel and although warm it was not at all hot. I could wrap my hand around it and hold it as long as I wanted no more hot than the outside of a warm coffee cup 15 min after you first pour it.

 

[murf]

check the crown for damage/cut crooked. slug the bore if you can and make sure the groove diameter is .308". have someone else shoot it.

luck,

murf

 

[castile]

Its on its way Fedx to Ruger. So we will see what they say

 

[GooseGestapo]

When the rifle comes back, use some bullets besides FMJ service grade bullets. I normally expect to see ~2moa from the FMJ at best.
Use a premium grade bullet such as a Sierra bthp, ProHunter, or GameKing.
Don't mix brass, and use Federal or CCI large rifle primers.

I suspect there was a barrel to receiver fitting problem.
Report back as I've contemplated getting an American in .308 to tinker with.

 

[castile]

Will do, I give it mid week to get to Ruger then another week or week and half to get back to me unless its a complete replacement which I doubt. My fear is they say its fine no problems. Then I am SOL on my end. Not going to keep playing with it and I guess sell it at that point. If Ruger says its OK and it does not work for me then I guess its time to part ways with that gun. I doubt I will get another. The couple times I did have a problem with Ruger they did fix the problem. I would love to see this come back and shoot tight groups.

 

[castile]

I just received a call from Ruger. I was told they cleaned it and shot it and it has excellent groups at 50 yards. So they did absolutely nothing. I am not sure where to go from here but put it up for sale. I don't know if I should return the scope to Walmart and buy get a third and try it one more time or not. But if I do it will go go GB if it shoots the same. I guess my streak with Ruger will be at an end as far as CS goes. If the 6 inch groups are my fault I would love to know what I am doing. Different ammo, loads, factory and scopes. I have tightened re tightened and inspected shot 2 plus min apart, given the gun every chance to preform I can. I believe I will replace the scope I bought at Walmart and get the same one new and see if by some strange chance I received two bad scopes. If that fails then its going to be sold off.

 

[d2wing]

Maybe cleaning was all it needed. That has happened to me. Some barrels copper foul and won't shoot. I was thinking a bad crown. I would still have it checked by a good smith.
Also in my experience is that max loads often are not as accurate as lower loads. Start at the recommended start loads and develope in increments like the book says.
If the cleaning did it you are good. Contrary to what some folks say, some guns shoot better clean.

 

[BigBore45]

im calling it a scope problem. nikon is junk, they have more refurbished scopes out there than anyone else and i have sent 3 of 3 back that i owned. they do have pretty clear glass though. i bet that light rifle in .308 was just shaking the lens loose after the first 3 rounds.

my american rifle shoots a 1" group at 100 Yards with factory winchester SP's.

How can you hold a gun steady enough with just one point of contact to shoot the groups you are expecting? I need a front stock point and a back stock point to hold steady enough for group shooting. thats why they make front and back bags. if you can hold steady just resting the gun in one spot like that to not move you are a dang good shooter.

i would guarantee after that call from ruger its not the gun, ruger is a no bs company that makes things right. im sure it was the scope if your shooting 2 MOA groups with an ar-- but do you rest the front of the ar and use the mag to hold you there? that would be 2 points of contact. im just saying that would be hard to shoot that way without a back rest for the rifle is all, not that you cannot do as you might well be good enough to shoot free handed better than i with 2 bags

 

[castile]

I don't know where you get Nikon is junk, but it may be the same place you got that I have one point of contact? I use a version of the lead sled. the gun is held buy that rear butt and the about 4 inches ahead of the mag well. I will try one more Nikon new but if it still shoots the same its the Ruger no way its not.

 

[Baron_Null]

Have you tried shooting it in any setup besides the lead sled? I've heard complaints that the American's stock isn't the most rigid thing out there, and it's said that lead sleds tends to be rough on firearms (stocks and optics especially) since the recoil energy is not being transferred to the shooter.

It's the only substantial factor I can think of that could lend that much of a difference between your results and Ruger's if it's not a difference in skill, considering it sounds like you shoot other things just fine.

I might be very far from correct, but I just thought I'd throw it out there!

 

[castile]

Well its possible. I have a Harris bi pod for it that I had not put on and could try a few rounds with that and also a sand bag. If no difference with all three set ups then its got to be beyond my pay grade.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

My 308 American is a tack driver. Not real picky about ammo either but I mostly use 4064 under sierra gameking.

The stock is flimsy, I'm real careful not to tweak it and push on the barrel.

 

[Nature Boy]

My worst acxuracy on any of the rifles I shoot is when I use my lead sled, for what's that's worth

 

[castile]

Now its the gun rest. LOL I highly doubt it. I have heard of cracked stocks but I will tell you in all my other rifles including a Ruger 77 it makes for very accurate shooting. I will try my caldwell shooting bags. http://www.fieldandstream.com/pages/lead-sled-americas-shame

 

[JackSprat]

The odds of being the scope are mighty slim,with as many as you have tried..I don't know how many shots Ruger pulled at 50 yards before declaring it satisfactory,or what it takes to satisfy the person doing the test.A realitivly small group at 50 doubles in size at 100...Try having someone else shoot it,without telling then it's inaccurate..Speaking for myself I have had times when I'm shooting,and just one little thing goes wrong,like taking my time on the perfect shot,and the safety being set,and nothing seems to feel right after that.I just go back to the house,because I know I won't be shooting my best..

 

[castile]

I have had the same thing happen. The gun rest makes it so I have not as much of an influence on the rifle as if I am holding it. It really works the same as a sandbag. I would say a good sand bag set up is even more stable. The thing is say I shoot two inch groups at 100 yds with the rest and maybe a sand bag will let me do one point five inches. But shooting six inch groups and all over the place is crazy. I think what I will do is buy some different factory ammo and set up several targets and shoot from a rest and bags and bipod and take photos marking what they are. I am also going to change the scope out one more time. I bought it from Walmart and they will take the one I bought back for 90 days so I will return it and buy another from a different walmart.

 

[GAF]

May I suggest that you go buy a box of Remington Core-Lokt 308 at 165 grain.

Try these and see how your rifle shoots.

 

[jrdolall]

I have a Weatherby Vanguard that does what you are describing. 270 and I could never get it to pattern at all using any ammo I ever tried and probably 10 scopes over the years. I get bored after deer season and often do some tweaking to rifle scope combinations that I don't really use for hunting all that much. This one sits in the safe right next to the Mossburg 30-06 that I despise, the Savage 25-06 with a 100 pound trigger pull and a couple of others I don't even bother shooting any more.
I did find that my Swede definitely prefers particular ammo.
I use a product similar to the Lead Sled and have been satisfied with the results.
I am not looking for supreme accuracy so 2" at 100 yards generally works for me as I shoot pretty dense hardwoods and don't have any spots that afford longer shots other than a couple of hay fields where I shoot the Swede.

 

[Nature Boy]

I have had times when I'm shooting,and just one little thing goes wrong,like taking my time on the perfect shot,and the safety being set,and nothing seems to feel right after that.I just go back to the house,because I know I won't be shooting my best.

That's so true

 

[castile]

Well Steve called me from Ruger. Very nice guy. He took the rifle back to the range after talking with me. He said they did get some fliers and he wanted to have another tech look at it with him. Steve then called me back a few hours later and said that They found it have fliers and checked the rifle over and found that it had a burr on the crown. He said they recrowned it and then put 12 rounds in the same hole at 50 yards no fliers. He is shipping it back. Glad to know I am not crazy. I asked what ammo he was using and he said they use what ever they can get their hands on but what they had now and were using was Black hills 168gr standard rounds not match.

 

[d2wing]

Good news. Hope all is well. In my post before I suspected the crown. Nice to know. The crown is extremely critical.

 

[Geno]

castile said:

Glad to know I am not crazy.

Might be jumping to conclusions there. You are "gun-crazy", right?!

I plead guilty to that one. Kinda crazy about my "Mrs" too, especially now that she's gone "gun crazy".

Geno