.308 Winchester - Stuck Case

[Texas4x4hoe]

Thanks for all the input guys. As far as the case lengths all my cases were all 2.010" or less. As soon as it quits raining I'm going to test some 308 win brass.

 

[macgrumpy]

OK, now I'm with you.

Industry standards says that leade section in the picture can also be called the throat. The freebore part in the picture is just that; not part of the throat at all. 'Tis another issue of different names used for the same things across us folks.

SAAMI definitions:

FREE BORE
A cylindrical length of bore in a firearm just forward of the chamber in which rifling is not present. Associated with bullet jump.

LEADE (LEAD)
That section of the bore of a rifled gun barrel located immediately ahead of the chamber in which the rifling is conically removed to provide clearance for the seated bullet. Also called Throat or Ball Seat.

THROAT
See Leade (Lead).

I agree but personally I prefer to use the definitions in the picture, otherwise you have two names for the tapered part at the beginning of the lands and grooves (Leade and Throat) and the a single name for the freebore. Throat seems to be more intuitive to me as a description of the overall area between the case neck and full height lands.

I'm wondering if the new longer shank of the ELD-X profile is causing a problem - maybe jamming a little, increasing pressure and then sticking the cases? Could the shank/ogive of the bullet be hitting the freebore area?

 

[Sunray]

35.0 grains of Varget is a tick below minimum even if the MKE brass has the NATO cross. If it doesn't, it's not NATO spec brass and you're way below minimum.
2.820" is too long too. Load to a max OAL of 2.810", no ogives involved. It's from the pointy part to the flat part. Forget the off-the-lands stuff until you have worked up a load.
You check the case lengths and FL resize?

 

[Bart B.]

Throat seems to be more intuitive to me as a description of the overall area between the case neck and full height lands.

Except throats in virtually all things having them are constantly tapered; bigger at one end than the other.

I admit I'm a "stick in the mud" by preferring to use industry standards instead of what personally seems correct. That simplifies interpretation by the receiver when the transmitter communicates something.

 

[Texas4x4hoe]

35.0 grains of Varget is a tick below minimum even if the MKE brass has the NATO cross. If it doesn't, it's not NATO spec brass and you're way below minimum.
2.820" is too long too. Load to a max OAL of 2.810", no ogives involved. It's from the pointy part to the flat part. Forget the off-the-lands stuff until you have worked up a load.
You check the case lengths and FL resize?

Yes I FL resize and trim the cases.

I loaded one as I did the first one that stuck in the chamber but with a hornady case, sized and trimmed to the same length and the same 35.0 gr Varget that the hornady manual says for 2100 fps. Got 2050 and the case was not in any way tight after firing.

I also weighed a CBC case vs the Hornady case and the CBC was right at 10 grains heavier with both being sized and trimmed the same.

 

[243winxb]

I also weighed a CBC case vs the Hornady case and the CBC was right at 10 grains heavier with both being sized and trimmed the same.

The 10 grs heavier would seem to be the problem.

Check loaded round neck diameter of both. If larger then .344" may produce excess pressure.

 

[Texas4x4hoe]

The 10 grs heavier would seem to be the problem.

Check loaded round neck diameter of both. If larger then .344" may produce excess pressure.

The one left I had loaded in the NATO brass was 0.336" and the three Hornady cases I just loaded are all 0.335". Working my way up with the hornady cases now with no issues so far. 37.1gr went 2140 and ejected nicely.
I guess the NATO brass will be reserved for subs. Should work ok for that.

 

[macgrumpy]

Except throats in virtually all things having them are constantly tapered; bigger at one end than the other.

I admit I'm a "stick in the mud" by preferring to use industry standards instead of what personally seems correct. That simplifies interpretation by the receiver when the transmitter communicates something.

Ehh, I don't agree about description of a typical throat, a throat is simply a tube that allows something to pass through it, in most mechanical things this is a cylinder that air or fluids flow through, it doesn't have a taper, if it has a taper then it's a conical, either divergent or convergent.

One example of a throat incorporated in to a device is a venturi scrubber, it has two conical shapes connected by cylinder called a throat

Another example is a typical gasoline engine, the air passages have a throat area directly adjacent to the valve seat, this area is designed to be a cylindrical shape that helps smooth air flow.

I don't think that you're being a "stick in the mud", you're trying to be accurate and when I talk with others about the features of a rifle chamber I'll use the commonly accepted terminology, even if I don't prefer to use those terms when I'm working by myself.

 

[Bart B.]

when I talk with others about the features of a rifle chamber I'll use the commonly accepted terminology,

OK, but I've no memory for the term "throat" to include the freebore constant diameter area between chamber mouth and leade until you did it earlier in this thread.

 

[1stmarine]

I suggest get to know the brass like others suggested. some military brass can be quite thick so measure the necks after resizing.
On average you should be able to load 40 grains of varget and still do not see any pressure signs. stay within saami dimensions
and do not assume anything about any brass until you segregate and measure. work it up slowly, by the book.

OK, now I'm with you.
Industry standards says that leade section in the picture can also be called the throat. The freebore part in the picture is just that; not part of the throat at all. 'Tis another issue of different names used for the same things across us folks.

Sometimes there is confusion about this but it is quite simple. The picture is right the freebore is the section completely stripped of any rifling that should be the precise caliber
dimension straight and smooth. When I grab what we call a "throater" or "throating" reamer I am ready to cut both extra freebore and cut new leades at the same time as we progress, perhaps with a new
angle if that is the desired goal. That results in a new throat than includes everything. When people want to be more specific then they will refer to freebore, leads, angle and lands
to be more precise about specific dimensions. We also hear freebore as the term to determine what "room" we have for a specific bullet but this can be misleading because
this measure like this will be arbitrary depending on the bullet and angle so what apparently seems a very similar bullet might ned +/- freebore than the other brand or model to reach same max coal (dictated by touching the lands).

I think in the end we all understand each other as soon as we don't start talking about different bullets and shapes otherwise it is what gets folks confused many times.

Also some folks need to remember that many commercial rifles are not reamed with SAAMI stnadards and instead given extra tolerances and longer throats to be more
forgiving due to reliability and perhaps liability concerns. Even same rifle models might change this from year to year and batch to batch. So giving max coal readings w/o
knowing the actual chamber can be also misleading. I know most of you know these things and much more, but just to make sure.