.32-20? Autobiography of Malcolm X

[abaddon]

Okay, so I've been reading the autobiography of Malcolm X and came across a handgun cartridge I'm not familiar with. Back before he found Allah and was still a crook he was held at gunpoint by another crook with a 32-30 gun. He said that "A .32-30 is a funny kind of gun. It's bigger than a .32. But it's not as big as a .38." (beginning of chapter 8) But I've never heard of such a gun. Was it a revolver or a semi-auto? Maybe along the lines of a 9 mm Makarov in power?

Jeff

(Edited to correct horrible grammar)

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Never heard of 32-30.

32-20 is another name for 32 WCF (winchester center fire).

It was a black powder cartridge introduced in the late 1800's. Caliber is 32, and the 20 referred I believe to the amount of powder the cartridge contained. Usually the bullets are around 100g and travel at 1000 to 1200 fps depending on if you are talking about a revolver or rifle.

It was chambered in the Colt SAA and a lot of old S&W double action revolvers. Also, Marlin and Winchester made a lot of lever action rifles and carbines in that caliber.

Its a very fun caliber to shoot, though admittedly not particularly useful for much. You can varmint hunt with it I guess.

Other than a few replica guns, I don't think it any new guns have been made for it in at least 50 or 60 years.

Its similar to 32 H&R magnum if you are familiar with that.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

As L_G said, the .32-20 was originally introduced as a black powder round in the 1880s or so. The first gun it was chambered in was the Winchester 1873 lever action rifle. It was later chambered in other guns, such as the Colt Single Action Army, S&W Hand Ejector, and the Winchester 1892 rifle, and the Marlin 1894 rifle.

Power-wise it's a bit a like a .32 H&R Magnum, but has a bigger, bottlnecked case. In a strong gun like a Winchester 92 or late model Marlin 94 it can be loaded up a bit hotter than the factory loads.

 

[Gatofeo]

I'm sure that Malcom meant a .32-20.
There WAS a .32-30, but it was a rifle cartridge introduced in the Remington-Hepburn rifle in 1884.
I've seen various misprints in books over the years, referring to a .44-44 when clearly .44-40 was the caliber, and somewhere not long ago I saw reference to a Colt Single Action Army in .32-30 --- clearly a misprint.
The .32-20 is larger than other .32-caliber pistol cartridges, so I can understand how Malcom would say it was, "... bigger than a .32. But it's not as big as a .38."
A clumsy way of saying it's longer than other .32 pistol cartridges.
The .32-20 is still available today in rifles (it was introduced as a rifle cartridge in the Winchester 1873 before it found its way into revolvers) and in pistols.
Some love it, others figure the .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnum is just as good, if not better. It's something of a controversial cartridge, especially when its use for hunting is discussed.
Though it's taken a lot of deer over the years, it's far too under-powered for clean, reliable kills. Heck, plenty of deer have been taken with the .22 Long Rifle --- but no sane or responsible sportsman would suggest it as a deer round.
The .32-20 is a fascinating little round, though.
From about 1900 to 1940, tons of cheap, Spanish-made revolvers were imported into the U.S. Many of them were chambered for the .32-20 cartridge, apparently it was well-liked in Europe too. Many were outright copies of the Smith & Wesson revolvers of the time, but their fit and finish were much poorer.
Most of these revolvers had dubious metallurgy and were unsafe when they were new. They should not be fired today, with any load.

 

[abaddon]

Not .32-30, .32-20. That was a typo on my part. Thanks for the info.

Jeff

 

[Jim Watson]

Criminals are rarely gun enthusiasts, they use what they can get.

 

[4v50 Gary]

You know, I've got to hand it to him. If someone were to point a gun at me, I'd say it was a 105 mm Howitzer and it was loaded with flechettes. To be able to distinguish that it was some ancient caliber fascinates me. He must have seen the gun before - ahem - so he knew the person who held it on him or is just full of fecal matters.

 

[Benjamin]

If this is the biography by Alex Haley, yes, Malcom X knew the other party reasonably well in the situation involving the .32-20

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thank you Benjamin for clarifying the matter.

 

[abaddon]

Yeah, it is the Alex Haley biography. From reading the bigraphy Malcolm did know guns pretty well though. He carried constantly before he went to prison and went into a lot more detail than you would expect about his carry choices. At the very least he always had a .25 or .32 acp. Of course he was carrying illegally because black people couldn't get permits back then.

 

[Jim K]

Abaddon, what do you mean "back then"? All gun laws in this country are racist in origin, no matter what their sponsors and the gun control types say.

One note on .32-20 in revolvers. A lot of the cheap Spanish revolvers imported back in the 1920's and 1930's were in that caliber. The reason was that the Spanish makers had turned out 8mm Lebel revolvers for the French in WWI, and by going to .32-20 instead of .38, they could use the 8mm barrel machinery and the chambering reamers needed only a slight change. Alas, many of the guns imported here were not even as good (?) quality as the guns made for the French, and blew up by the hundreds when fired with rifle loads.

Jim

 

[otomik]

i saw the movie and never got the impression malcolm was into guns until the end where he gets on the bad side of NOI and he has a m1 carbine.

as if spike lee had any credibility since bamboozled.

 

[lbmii]

Interesting side note concerning Malcom X; he was shot with a 12 gauge double barrel sawed off shotgun loaded with single ought buck, a 45 auto, and I think a 38 super.

The 32-20 was used by some detectives back in the 50s and early 60s. The 32-20 could be really hot loaded.

 

[abaddon]

Jim Keenan,

You're right, but gun laws were more obviously racist than they are now. Malcolm complains about this in his book. According to the Alex Haley biography made this statement to newspaper reporters:

"I feel that if white people were attacked by Negroes -- if the forces of law prove unable, or inadequate, or reluctant to protect those whites from those Negroes -- then those white people should protect themselves and defend themselves from those Negroes, using arms if necessary. And I feel that when the law fails to protect Negroes from whites' attack then those Negroes should use arms, if necessary, to defend themselves."

Apparently the newspapers only reported the last half of that statement. They were fine with white people arming themselves, just not black people.

He's really an interesting guy. The more I get into his autobiography (3/4 done) the more I start to admire the guy. Of course maybe that's because the more I get into his autobiography the more moderate he gets, at least as far as his earlier "the white man is the devil" stance is concerned.

Jeff

 

[pauli]

he was shot with a 12 gauge double barrel sawed off shotgun loaded with single ought buck, a 45 auto, and I think a 38 super.

i've got visions of some guy sitting in front of a table with a shotgun, two shells, and a pair of 1911's.

"how in the heck am i supposed to load those shells once i've got the other stuff in the chambers? this is gonna be a looooooong day."

 

[BlackTalon]

 

[otomik]

he was shot with a 12 gauge double barrel sawed off shotgun

ah the Lupara, how appropriate given the perceived betrayal.
I like a lot of what Malcolm X has to say after he woke up from all that crap NOI was (and still is) spewing.

here's some pretty straightforward facts on NOI
http://ontruth.com/NationofIslam.htm
(pay attention to the end on the document which describes the origins of the white race and the coming armageddon, scientologists got nothing on these guys)

 

[Model520Fan]

Malcolm was pretty sharp. He used to carry "some guns." Not one, not two, but "some." When he went to a gambling place in his earlier days, he had enough guns so that when he went through the routine frisk and checked in his gun and his backup before entering, he was still not unarmed.

 

[abaddon]

Black Talon,

What kind of gun is he holding there? The book said that

"He let himself be photographed in his hom holding an automatic carbine rifle with a full double clip of ammunition that he said he kept ready for action against any possible assassination efforts."

After reading that I got curious as to what type of gun that was and I don't recognize it from your picture there.

Jeff

 

[Benjamin]

the picture is a US M1 or M2 carbine

 

[WhiteKnight]

I honestly didn't know those were fully auto. I knew some were select-fire, but I thought that mean burst/semi/safety.

 

[Grump]

Select is typically safe-semi-full, to distinguish from regular full-auto-onlys like the Thompson SMG, etc. Frequently select-fire arms are just called FA.

Burst is a relatively new development and remains a bit uncommon. It's FA for regulation purposes, and technically select fire if accompanied with a semiauto setting, but in my circles it's generally just called burst.

The M2 Carbine was semi/full auto select fire, using a selector separate from the safety.

 

[joab]

"He let himself be photographed in his hom holding an automatic carbine rifle with a full double clip of ammunition that he said he kept ready for action against any possible assassination efforts."

The term automatic has been transformed into it's current meaning, originally it simply meant automatic action, loading from the magazine, as opposed to bolt ,lever,or pump actions.
The original "MKI Ruger was The Standard Automatic Pistol, 1911s were .45 Autos and such
What we refer to today as automatic or full automatic were originally machine guns and submachine guns