.32 ACP bullet diameter/loading problem

[halfmoonclip]

Some friends and I picked up old Walther PPs the other year and I have been reloading for them; our range officer was casting 71gr. RNL bullets sized .309". The resulting loads shot really straight and reliably.
Our supply of brass was getting old/splitting/lost, so I ordered a batch of Rem-UMC brass, the only thing currently available.
When I started loading in it, frequently the .309" bullet would drop right into the case.
After some examination, the new brass was found to have a .011" wall thickness, while the older brass tended to be .015". It appears that the thinner case walls have increased the inside diameter of the case.
I have ordered a Redding sizing die to replace the Lee I'm using; reputedly it should size the casings to a smaller diameter, and they should be round.
My question is what should I do about bullet diameter? The range officer bumped some bullets up to .313+", and those could be pressed solidly in to the case, tho' I thought the primers in these cases looked cratered when fired.
The reloading manuals use everything from .308" to .312" as bullet diameter.
Questions:
-any suggestions for solving the problem beyond what I'm doing?
-any source of brass other than Rem-UMC?
-any personal experience using the larger diameter bullets? One manual claimed that Gold Dots were .312".
Ideas? Suggestions?
Thnx in advance,
Moon

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Still new at this game, but will take a stab at a few things I see...

I believe the bullet diameter should be more a function of the actual groove diameter of the barrel than what fits well in the brass. Try slugging it and measure. Possibly the .313 bullet is too big, causing the pressure signs.

Since the .32 ACP is semi rimmed and Wikipedia states it headspaces on the rim, you should be free to tighten down the crimp die to hold the bullet in place with the thinner brass.

Fiocchi sells factory loaded ammo in .32 ACP with reloadable brass that you might give a try.

 

[ljnowell]

Still new at this game, but will take a stab at a few things I see...

I believe the bullet diameter should be more a function of the actual groove diameter of the barrel than what fits well in the brass. Try slugging it and measure. Possibly the .313 bullet is too big, causing the pressure signs.

Since the .32 ACP is semi rimmed and Wikipedia states it headspaces on the rim, you should be free to tighten down the crimp die to hold the bullet in place with the thinner brass.

Fiocchi sells factory loaded ammo in .32 ACP with reloadable brass that you might give a try.

I doubt cranking down the crimp would really help any at all, neck tension is required. Typically its neck tension that prevents setback and crimp that prevents bullet pull.

 

[joneb]

I think neck tension is the key for the acp load, the crimp removes the case flare + a little more.

 

[Seedtick]

It looks like you can pick some up here.

--> 32ACP Brass <--

They may have other brands as well. Buffalo Arms is a good place to find 'hard to find' stuff.

Seedtick

 

[GooseGestapo]

It's not the die, it's the BRASS.
Determine which brass is the problem and dispense with it.
I doubt that the Redding sizer die will help.
Call Lee and let them know what problem you're having. They may exchange your die with you for a smaller spec. die.

I know that Lee offers different dies as I have a custom OVERSIZE 9mm die. I use it to load match ammo, and specified a .003" oversize die. That way, my STARLINE brass is not oversized giveing it the "coke-bottle" effect look. Also loads some spectacularily accurate ammo.

It's not unsual for some "odd" manufactured brass to be undersized. From my experience, the Federal and Remington tend to be the thinnest .32acp, and Fiocchi and MagTech to be some of the thickest. YMMV.
I get best result with the .32acp with .311" bullets.

Back in the '70's and earlier, the 9mm was notorious for problems with varying spec brass with some tending to be very thin. Now that it's much, much more popular, there isn't as much variation as there once was.

 

[MMCSRET]

My PP will handle the larger diameter bullets OK. Remington brass is thinner in just about every straight wall caliber they make. I like it for some and not for others. I find PMC to be the best all round for 32 Auto. I like the Remington 71 gr. FMJ/RN. they are .311 last time I measured. I size my cast bullets to .311 also. I have some cast .309 but haven't tried them, maybe some day. But---it is the R-P brass!!!!!!

 

[NCsmitty]

As mentioned, you need to know what your pistol's barrel measures to be able to properly ascertain the bullet diameter needed.
I load for 32ACP and 32 S&W with the same as-cast bullet that measures .312, and most 32 caliber handguns that I know, shoot that diameter well.
Most 32 cal jacketed bullets run .312 diameter, and that should be a signal to anyone who reloads.
The die's expander ball needs to be around .002 smaller than the bullet diameter used, and a minimum flare used for bullet insertion.


NCsmitty

 

[rcmodel]

Wikipedia states it headspaces on the rim,

Quite simply, Wikipedia is dead wrong.
Imagine that!!

The .32 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, just like all of the other straight wall ACP calibers.

The only other one that "tried" to headspace on the semi-rim was the .38 Super in the Colt 1911.

It was finally discovered after 75 years that it didn't work, and was the cause of the .38 Supers reputation for lousy accracy all those years.

When properly chambered to headspace on the mouth, as is now done by Colt and others, it is as accurate as any other caliber.

rc

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

wrong slug diameter. you need .311 or .312 (cast slugs) to load for that Walther.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Guys, thank you. What a wealth of information.
A couple specific replies:
-For all who cited neck tension as critical, yes, I agree. It's possible to crimp a bullet down tight after it's seated (Lee factory crimp die holds quite well in .357s in a Ti Smith), but you need neck tension initially. Understand what is being said about coke-bottle 9mms, but they seem to work okay all the same.
-Seedtick, thanks for the birddog on the Fiocchi brass. Another poster says it has thick walls; have you ever miked the wall thickness? I may well order from them; past positive experience with Fiocchi.
-Goose, the Redding die is on the way at no small cost. Depending on what I find about brass, I may resort to a smaller diameter sizing die from Lee, if they have it.
-RC, interesting about the semi-rimmed .32. The semi-rim was not one of JMB's better ideas. It causes a myriad of problems in .32, rim lock first among them. You had to be really careful how you loaded the mags for KelTec .32s. Oddly, the much stronger recoil spring on a Walther would usually drive the rim-locked round forward anyway. I've never worried about headspace in any autopistol round; IMHO, most of them headspace on the extractor hook!
-MagTech and Fiocchi have been cited as having greater wall thickness; anybody actually measure it?
Again, thanks.
Moon

 

[Seedtick]

-Seedtick, thanks for the birddog on the Fiocchi brass. Another poster says it has thick walls; have you ever miked the wall thickness? I may well order from them; past positive experience with Fiocchi.

Sorry Moon, .32 isn't a caliber I've ever messed with. I have loaded Fiocchi brass in other calibers though and I can't remember having any trouble with it.

Seedtick

 

[zeke]

Have succesfully ordered "special" dies from Lee, at a very reasonable cost. It does involve waiting for em. Just recently received a .380 undersize die (carbide) and a 32 acp factory crimp die (with carbide insert).

Have a Manhurian Walther 32 acp, and it is very accurate with Win factory loads. handloaded Hdy 60 gn xtp (.312) or Speer 60 gdhp. Used a RCBS carbide die, Win, Rem and Fed brass. Made no powder combinations to check for function and setback. Did not get any measurable setback with Rem or Win brass. Also took notice the very short leade in the barrel.

From Walther 32 acp PP, Fed brass, Fed 100 primer, Hdy 60 xtp, .898 col, 2.2 grains green dot for about 1000 fps and ex accuracy. Had to hand weigh every charge. Ordered the Lee factory crimp to get decent crimp on varying lengths of brass.

 

[halfmoonclip]

zeke, appreciate the info regarding the custom Lee sizing die. It amazes me in this day and age that they will still do that kind of thing. The Redding die showed up, but I fear it won't solve the problem. If push really comes to shove regarding brass other than Remington, it might be the way to go.
Contacted Buffalo Arms today, and the techie was kind enough to mike the casewall of one of the few specimens that he had on hand. Thickness was the 0.015+" that I found on non-troublesome brass. Bad news was that they had virtually none on hand; good news is that there is to be more on the way.
I'm still sniffing after that Scorpion; no idea what purpose it might serve, but it just looks neater'n hell.
Moon