entropy
Member
There are two people's reloads I trust; and my Dad doesn't reload anymore.
32 year old reloads, need advice.
- Thread starter 1TwistedGimp
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
Dave, just to let you know, weighing loaded ammo tells you almost nothing. Brass cases vary widely in weight especially if the are from different companies. Even same company cases will vary in weight, even more if the trims are within specs but different lengths. Primers also vary in weight.
For rifle ammo with 29gr of powder about all you can tell is it the case is totally void of powder, not if There is slightly more or less than it should be.
For rifle ammo with 29gr of powder about all you can tell is it the case is totally void of powder, not if There is slightly more or less than it should be.
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
WestKentucky,
Would there be that big a variation of weight up to 10gr difference? I am just getting ready to start reloading for rifle and honestly don’t know. Straight wall pistol cases are pretty straightforward when it comes to reloading but I have quite a bit to learn about reloading necked rifle rounds, hopefully I’m able to go slowly and ask questions that I can’t find answers to in manuals or archived on the web.
WestKentucky
Member
Absolutely. The variation can be extreme, especially with long action bottlenecked rounds like 30-06 or .270 win. The differences in pressure will be visible on the target too if you are a good shot.
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
WestKentucky,
Boy, I have a lot to learn about reloading for rifle. The 30-30 is just for deer here in sw Missouri’s brushy areas so don’t really need a super precision round for a 150yrd shot which is about the longest shot I’d take on my little 18 acre homestead. I’m a bit more serious about the .223/5.56 varmint accuracy that I’d like to start loading for.
I have put off loading for rifle for a long time cause I knew it was more involved than pistol, I started just loading 9mm and slowly branched out to .380, .40, .32, .25 auto and .45 colt. I learned how to cast my own bullets and powder coat them as well but reloading rifle has always made me a bit nervous due to all the extra gear needed and stories of stuck cases let alone all the things I don’t know that I don’t know but I have to start somewhere I guess.
Dave
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I just went down into the basement and weighed several groups of my 30-30 handloads. I checked 10 each, the first group had a 10.0gr spread, the second group had a 4.4gr spread and they third group had a 6.8gr spread. All these loads used the same headstamped brass but different bullets.
Finally I weighed and old box of 20 factory Winchester Silvertip 30-30 ammo. The lightest was 338.3gr and the heaviest was 343.3gr. That is a full 5gr spread from factory ammo with cases and primers from the lot numbers no less.
As you see the weights from loaded ammo can in deed vary greatly.
Edit, the group with the 10gr spread was with lead bullets, the other 2 were JSP bullets.
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
I think the best thing I can do is use these and the few other 30-30 cases I have to learn from. I don’t really need to reload any 30-30, I have 120-140 in the safe which will last a looong time for hunting. I only realized the other day that I could use 1 powder for.223/5.56 and 30-30 so I thought it made sense to pick up some dies for both as well as a trimmer and start collecting all the other gear needed to get started. I still haven’t settled on a powder that would work well for both even though there seems to be many that’ll do the job.
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
ArchAngelCD,
So 10gr variance isn’t a huge deal for mixed head stamps and I’d probably be ok to shoot em? I like the thought of using them, the fella I got em from and the guy who loaded em both belong/belonged to a shooting club here for years and shot competitive. Only reason he gave em to me is he got rid of his 30-30 15 yrs ago and I hang out in his shop (flea market/gun shop) and chew the fat from time to time.
JeffG
Member
Awesome.
Riomouse911
Member
Based on the 29 gr of 3031 under the 170 gr bullet it looks like the loader was aiming for factory ballistics for the .30-30. I've seen the charge weight range for 170 gr bullets from 27 gr up to 32+/- gr of 3031 depending on bullets, cases, rifles. etc. My last .30-30 loads used 150 gr Extreme plated bullets with 29 gr of 3031. Not max loads, and plenty fun to shoot.
And yes, +/- variances in case, bullet, primer and powder charge weights in grains is more common than one would think...and is sometimes surprisingly large.
Stay safe!
And yes, +/- variances in case, bullet, primer and powder charge weights in grains is more common than one would think...and is sometimes surprisingly large.
Stay safe!
ArchAngelCD
Member.
To tell you the truth this is the first time I have ever weighed loaded ammo so I was a little surprised at the spreads, especially the factor ammo.
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
Riomouse911,
Thank you for all the information, I might just pick the lowest and highest weight ones and give em a shot tomorrow afternoon. If everything goes ok I’ll have a couple more shells to learn with.
Dave
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
ArchAngelCD,
Tonight was my first time too and I was a bit shocked by the variance, I often weigh my charge 2 times just to be sure cause I have 5 kids, 2 dogs (chihuahuas), my wife and mother in law all in the same house and it’s easy to get distracted even with the door closed . It’s a big house but everyone uses the back door past my reloading room. I never weighed any pistol case or finished round cause I was positive it was loaded right or it was immediately disassembled if I had any question about it. This hobby always surprises me with how much I don’t know.
Dave
Jesse Heywood
Member
From 2003 IMR manual:
30-30 WINCHESTER
REM. CASE; REM. 9° PR
HORNADAY 170 GR. FP
.308" DIA.; 24" BBL.; 2.545" C.O.L.
IMR 3031 29.7 2110 39000
Sounds like the loader did his job and did it well. Given what you have reported with the powder charges at 29.0 gr, I would not hesitate to shoot em. I didn't see how many rounds there are. I would take them to the range and send them flying, paying honor to a fallen comrade. If they are worthy, save a few for your next hunt. Then you will have a story to tell the grandkids.
30-30 WINCHESTER
REM. CASE; REM. 9° PR
HORNADAY 170 GR. FP
.308" DIA.; 24" BBL.; 2.545" C.O.L.
IMR 3031 29.7 2110 39000
Sounds like the loader did his job and did it well. Given what you have reported with the powder charges at 29.0 gr, I would not hesitate to shoot em. I didn't see how many rounds there are. I would take them to the range and send them flying, paying honor to a fallen comrade. If they are worthy, save a few for your next hunt. Then you will have a story to tell the grandkids.
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
Jesse Heywood,
That’s reassuring, thank you for posting. I have 28 of the 31 given to me left, I’ll try a few tomorrow afternoon and if all is well save the rest for deer. 20 rounds could put a lot of deer in the freezer over the years and rifle season is fast approaching, now if I can just get that 6 point to stop trying to jump on the trampoline and come on down the field past my stand like he did EVERYDAY before bow season started I’d be in good shape. He stays just out of range for my xbow and crosses the property and walks down the fence line... gah!
Dave
ArchAngelCD
Member.
It sure is... That's why I had so many 30-30 rounds on hand. I load a 150gr and 170gr JSP bullet and a 165gr Cast Bullet from Missouri Bullets. All are very accurate in my levergun. ( Ballard rifling)
OP
OP
1TwistedGimp
Member
ArchAngelCD,
I’ve only ever heard about the Ballard rifling, never lucky enough to see or shoot one unfortunately. I have a nice 336 microgroove that I like to take out occasionally but mostly use the early 80s win 94 as it’s not very pretty and I don’t mind it getting scuffed and dinged here and there. It shoots straight enough for deer within 150 yrds but more importantly my FIL gave it to me just before he died so I could go hunting with him, that never happened as he passed last October sadly. I now cherish that old win 94 and all the others he left to me.
Dave
mstreddy
Member
Yes, that's a common weight variance for loaded rounds given mixed brass, but is the variance from cases, bullets, or??? 10 gr variance in powder charge weights, now, that would not be "bueno".
That's why unless one segregated components before loading by weight of cases and bullets, and loaded only from one batch within the same parameters, weighing completed rounds to determine powder charge is futile.
No, I wouldn't rely on the weight of completed rounds on unknown case and bullet variables to determine charge weights!
While you weighed three rounds and got a good stable charge weight out of them on par with the label. What would concern me is the mixed stamps in the box as compared to the label. Are there mixed loaded rounds from other batches that made it's way into that box?
If it was me, I'd pull all the bullets, weigh the powder charges, and if it's 29 gr, within a variance of say .3 grains, put them back in and seat the bullets and shoot them. If you encounter charges outside your preferred variance level, then I'd recharge them all to 29 or whatever charge level I wanted out of the supply of powder. Again, this is assuming the powder is good in all the rounds.
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
Pull one to make sure powder is good. If so weigh pulled case with all components on scale,then weigh the rest to make sure they are in parameters to check for double charges.Then shoot em
alsaqr
Member
This^^^^
Especially true when the cases are mixed brands. The OP mentioned the fact that cases are mixed Federal, RP and Winchester.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
If everything mentioned above looks ok they are probably ok, but...
since you only have a few - 28. I would just pull the bullets, dump the powder and reloaded them with new powder.
Not that much time to pull 28 and you loose maybe $2 or $3 worth of powder,
I always like to err on the side of caution.
since you only have a few - 28. I would just pull the bullets, dump the powder and reloaded them with new powder.
Not that much time to pull 28 and you loose maybe $2 or $3 worth of powder,
I always like to err on the side of caution.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Ballard rifling is cut rifling. If you look into your old Winchester levergun barrel you will see an example of Ballard rifling. (I think) I don't think it's button rifling or hammer forged.
Krogen
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Shooters tend to be a frugal bunch. Somebody else's ancient handloads? OP didn't know the handloader and got the loads from a third party. Being frugal can be costly. IMNHO, it just ain't worth it. How much would you save by shooting these loads? The price of a cheap dinner? At Denny's maybe? Pull 'em down for components and garden fertilizer.
thomas15
Member
If I had zero interest in damaging either of my 30-30s then I would not shoot this ammo. Since I handload I would take them apart and use the brass, bullets if they are something I'm interested in.
After scanning this thread trying to gain an understanding of how many rounds of 30-30 the OP was given, the above is the only clue and that clue isn't clear to me. Are we talking about 31 rounds, 40 rounds or 500 rounds? The reason I ask is me personally, If I had 30 rounds of a particular cartridge/load and after that quantity was exhausted would have no further ability to obtain more, I wouldn't shoot them except at tin cans because I'm not going to put in the time to figure out how a particular load performs in my (2) 30-30s and then never see that load again. Hard to believe there are 50 responses to this thread.
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