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.327 vs. .357

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First off calling it the ".327" is just a marketing scheme as it is nothing like a .357. However, in terms of bullet weight and velocity it is very much like a +P+ 9mm round, so I do think it has a lot of potential for SD- though not nearly as much as the .357. In short it does more damage than a .38, kicks less than a .357, and you get one extra round.

I think it has more promise as a hunting gun in medium frame revolvers and leverguns- 8 round cylinders would be easy and you have everything from .32 S&W for squirrels to the new .327 for predator hunting and such.

It also is said to equal the .32/20 or .30 carbine in a rifle.
 
.327:

Energy:

Grains Velocity Energy (Ft/Lbs)

115.000 1300.000 431.505


Momentum:

Grains Velocity Momentum

115.000 1300.000 21.357


Sectional Density:

Grains Diameter Sectional Density

115.000 0.312 0.169


.357:

Energy:

Grains Velocity Energy (Ft/Lbs)

125.000 1400.000 543.961


Momentum:

Grains Velocity Momentum

125.000 1400.000 25.000


Sectional Density:

Grains Diameter Sectional Density

125.000 0.358 0.139



Any Questions?

(Note, the .357 wasn't using the most powerful loads available, not by a long shot)
 
kicks less than a .357

This doesn't mean anything.

Even commercial .357 ammo is available with 158 grain bullets going 800 fps at the muzzle, with 180 grain bullets going 1400 fps, and everything in between.

How much recoil does a .357 have, exactly?
 
I'm still trying to figure out why some revolvers are .45acp. What's the point?

The .327 looks interesting but is the answer to a question no one really asked. The sectional density on the bullets might be a little bit better than the .357.
 
I hope 327 Mag does well, but I don't see it happening. With ammo prices the way they are, and with little likelihood of many 1st time firearm purchasers (many of which may consider the round) wanting to reload, I see the availability and price of 357, and especially 38 killing it.

IMO, if you're that concerned with having one more round, why not just get an autoloader and have several more rounds?

Of course my favorite round is 45acp (yes, in a revolver), but that's just me...:)
 
Thanks again for all the replies. They pretty much were consistent with my thoughts. It's just always nice to hear others opinions supporting your thought.

Wyman
 
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why would anyone sacrifice a larger peranent wound chanel for a larger temporary wound chanel?
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Because they, like many, have bought into the ridiculous notion that ft-lbs. equals effectiveness, regardless of all other factors like bullet size and weight.
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It hasn't been too awfully long ago that I believed in that fable as well.

I've got a .357 S&W 340 and I shoot a fairly low power load (DPX) in it for obvious reasons. I get around 11 or 1200 fps with it. I figured that I could get one of the new 5" barreled j-frames and get a whole bunch more foot pounds of energy with the same recoil. I could still hide it well IWB and I figured that was a good way to go for carry.

I got to researching it and realized that, even if the consistently opening DPX bullet slowed it down fast enough to not overpenetrate, all that extra foot pounds of energy was virtualy wasted in a temporary wound chanel.

Now if I could have gone with a bigger mushrooming heavier bullet to use that extra energy (without exiting the body after the recommended 12" or so) - that extra energy could be put to some good use. But I would have gained a whole lot of recoil along with that performance and I was at my limit as it was.

Energy for energy's sake (created by speed) does nothing at all. All energy has to be translated into work to be terminally meaningful. If that work is mearly a temporary wound chanel that closes back up after the bullet passes, it's just "make work" - not effective work.

If a person gets around 12" of recommended penetration and no more - it doesn't matter at all what speed the round hit the body. Now if more speed allows a nicely opening larger mushroom to go the 12" or so and no more - that's powder well spent.

But moving a small bullet at high speeds in and of itself makes no sense at all IMO. Obviously a higher initial speed is required for a smaller bullet to reach the required area of penetration. But even then, if it does so with a narrowed wound chanel - so what?

Foot pounds of energy is good stuff if it can be "dumped" in 10 or 12" by translating it into a larger mushroom of lead that stops in the required lethal area. That's the holy grail of carry ammo - not foot pound figures themselves.

Those who worship at the alter of energy without understanding bullet design and wounding basics - worship in vain IMO.
 
But moving a small bullet at high speeds in and of itself makes no sense at all IMO.
I'm assuming this is what you intended, but I just wanted to add that this makes sense only when discussing pistol rounds. A 55-65gr HP or SP .223 round at close to 3,000fps is going to do quite a bit of work work.
 
A 55-65gr HP or SP .223 round at close to 3,000fps is going to do quite a bit of work work.

Most certainly. Roy Weatherby demonstrated how a small bullet could drop very large game, if it was going fast enough.

The catch, as you wrote, is that "fast enough" is much faster than any pistol round.

There's another catch: obstacles can stop a light bullet more easily than a heavy one.

Energy goes up as velocity squared. Momentum doesn't. Momentum is what determines a moving object's tendency to keep on moving. Energy does NOT equal momentum, and if anything, energy overstates the importance of velocity.

IMO a light high-velocity round relies on everything going "just so" more than a heavy, slower round.
 
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From a 2.3" barrel of a SP101, my 140 JHP .357 magnum gets 550 ft lbs. From the 3" barrel of a Taurus 66 is gets 600 ft lbs. I don't see the .327 ever being in that neighborhood. As mentioned, the .357 is a proven fight stopper in real life, too, and there are plenty of effective loads to choose from in the caliber. I see the .327 more as an alternative to the .38, but I like .38 better, frankly. Might not have the paper energy, but has the combat record and is mild to shoot both in recoil and muzzle blast.

Actually, the .327 best compares ballistically from a pocket sized gun to the 9x19 +P. I already have a 9x19 pocket gun I like and it offers 13 rounds on tap, not 6, and reloads are faster. It is also milder of muzzle flash, though the recoil is probably a little more. No brainer there as to my choice. :D The .327 MIGHT have a little more energy than my 115 grain JHP 9x19's 410 ft lbs from its 3" barrel, but not by much.
 
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A 55-65gr HP or SP .223 round at close to 3,000fps is going to do quite a bit of work work.
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I totally agree!

It sounds like you know this already. But I'll go ahead on this since many may not.

Rifle bullets are in a whole different catagory of performance "wound chanel" wise from pistol bullets in general.

The speeds of rifle bullets allow for very fast impact and expansion speeds compared to pistol bullets.

Take a hollow point 130 gr. .270 rifle and shoot an elk in the lungs. It will blow them out like a pumkin. The very fast speeds of the rifle are what does the job on elk. Now take your .38 revolver and slip a 130 gr. round in between the ribs of an elk and see what happens. You will, indeed, probably kill him just as dead. But he'll likely go a long way before you find him. It won't make a lot of difference if you drive the .38 at 800fps or at 900fps. And it won't make a lot of difference if you substitute a 1400fps .32 for a 1200fps .357. Neither one is going to do the kinds of severe things we can do with Jack O'Conner's favorite rifle - kill him, yes; drop him in his tracks before he can gore you, no.

Handgun speeds just don't cause that explosive reaction of tissue. Rifle speed bullets cause comparatively dramatic wound chanels which in a split second become very real permanent wound chanels because of the tearing of tissue etc.

If we put our hand in a buck of water - it causes hardly any damage to the subject. It simply slides in and the water closes back after it's insertion. If we shove it in a little faster the results are little different. But if we hit the water with a great deal of impact, the results are comparatively staggering. We'll have water in our face, on the walls, and on the floor. A great deal of our water will have been displaced (never to return) from the bucket. We'll have a real "life changing" wound not just a temporary bruise in our bucket of water.

Rifle velocities can translate all that energy into real work in the form of tissue disruption beyond the actual path of the puncture. Handgun velocities, for the most part, do not.

They will certainly cause some damage around the chanel of the bullet path and I'm all for "bruising" the bad guy while I'm killing him. But their only real hope of stopping the assault in time to save our bacon is reaching the vitals (hopefully the central nervous system) with a bullet that can cause severe damage when it arrives on target.

What you see is what you get. You can choose a .32" hole or you can choose a .45" hole. Your choice.

Extra powder can drive your chosen bullet deeper or it can cause it, in many cases, to mushroom better (making a larger wound chanel) or both. But energy for energy's sake means nothing. We need to look at what we are accomplishing with all that energy.

In the case of the .32 mag. - we are most likely overcoming the light bullet's tendency to slow down quickly with extra velocity to begin the wound chanel with. The result is that the light bullet goes in just as deep as the slower heavy bullet. The recoil (for the sake of illustration) is the same for both. The noise level is likely greater from torching off all that powder. The wound chanel is obviously larger for the .38 cal. round - although the bruising aroud the chanel is most likely greater for the fast stepping .32.

Which would you like to be stabbed with, both to the depth of 9 or 10" - a fast moving ice pick or slow moving shovel handle? Which do you think is more likely to sever something vital in it's path, a pencil or a 1" closet dowel?

Like I said, the .327 may make it and it may serve many people well down the road. I hope it does. But don't choose that carry gun based on paper energy alone. That would be a bad mistake IMO. :)

Didn't mean to highjack the thread. Ill get off this now.:eek:
 
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