329PD Perplexification

[2 Crow]

So I went out to shoot the 329PD yesterday. The weather was perfect for a trip to the range. I took some 44 Spcl (Skeeter 250’s and some very mild 240 RNFP) and some mags (9.5grn Unique with 250 Keith and some 220grn Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator over 10grn Unique). All loads are very manageable and enjoyable to shoot.

I started with the Specials then moved into the Mags with Keith Bullets. Shoot, extract, load up, repeat. No problems. I then loaded the cylinder with the mags with 10grn of Unique and 220 Penetrators. Very, very mild to shoot, not bad for accuracy, but would not extract. Little pop with the left palm, OUCH, no extract. Little wrap with the MTM Ca’tridge box, and out they came. No scratches, not funky pressure signs on the primers, nothing, and again, very mild. At first I thought, dirty cylinder from firing so many specials. But I decided to go back to the 9.5grn Unique under the Keith bullet. Shot and extracted beautifully. I tried some factory 44 Mags that a friend brought along, no problems. Now.... all brass was brand new, never fired Starline. All primers were WLP.

I have thoroughly cleaned the gun. I would really like to give the 220grn Xtreme Penetrator load over 10grn of Unique another try with a clean gun, but I do t want to have to whack the ejector rod every time.

Insights?

 

[fxvr5]

Some folks have problems extracting heavy loads from titanium cylinders that will extract ok from steel/stainless steel cylinders.

I've seen this with my 340PD.

 

[2 Crow]

Some folks have problems extracting heavy loads from titanium cylinders that will extract ok from steel/stainless steel cylinders.

I've seen this with my 340PD.

I ran into that issue with some “heavy” factory loads on my last trip out. These loads that have issue this time are far from heavy. In fact, gave less felt recoil that the 250grn with 9.5grn of powder.

 

[paul105]

I'll just throw this out for consideration. Maybe try a slower burning powder. The mono metal bullets take up quite a bit of powder space and might cause the pressure curve to spike a bit sooner with faster powders (the bullet metal itself might also contribute) causing the case to stick -- maybe a slower power would "flatten the curve" so to speak (where have I heard this before?).

I haven't used the the 220gr XP, so I don't know how much powder space it takes up.

I have used the three bullets pictured below (225 gr HP Barnes mono, 265gr WFN Lehigh mono, and for comparison the 310gr Lee FNGCDCG.



The faster burning powder (in this case Accurate #9 vs H110) seem to cause cases to stick sooner as you approach top end (book) loads with the two mono metal bullets. This in stainless steel cylinders (haven't tried them in my 329).

The best combination of velocity, bullet integrity and bullet weight I've found for the .44 is Cutting Edge 240gr flat point solid (mono metal). I get right at 1,200 fps from my 2 3/4" M69. Here's a picture of the 240gr CE and the 265gr Lehigh (the CE meplat is smaller).



IIRC, I there was some internet chatter on the S&W forum early on relating to sticky cases in the 329 using factory magnum ammo. Guns were "fixed" by S&W. I doubt they'd do much for you if factory magnum ammo was extracting easily but you handload wasn't.

I'd be inclined to use the slowest powder giving the desired velocity when using the mono metal bullets.

Just some of my observations.

Paul

 

[2 Crow]

I'll just throw this out for consideration. Maybe try a slower burning powder. The mono metal bullets take up quite a bit of powder space and might cause the pressure curve to spike a bit sooner with faster powders (the bullet metal itself might also contribute) causing the case to stick -- maybe a slower power would "flatten the curve" so to speak (where have I heard this before?).

I haven't used the the 220gr XP, so I don't know how much powder space it takes up.

I have used the three bullets pictured below (225 gr HP Barnes mono, 265gr WFN Lehigh mono, and for comparison the 310gr Lee FNGCDCG.

View attachment 922343

The faster burning powder (in this case Accurate #9 vs H110) seem to cause cases to stick sooner as you approach top end (book) loads with the two mono metal bullets. This in stainless steel cylinders (haven't tried them in my 329).

The best combination of velocity, bullet integrity and bullet weight I've found for the .44 is Cutting Edge 240gr flat point solid (mono metal). I get right at 1,200 fps from my 2 3/4" M69. Here's a picture of the 240gr CE and the 265gr Lehigh (the CE meplat is smaller).

View attachment 922344

IIRC, I there was some internet chatter on the S&W forum early on relating to sticky cases in the 329 using factory magnum ammo. Guns were "fixed" by S&W. I doubt they'd do much for you if factory magnum ammo was extracting easily but you handload wasn't.

I'd be inclined to use the slowest powder giving the desired velocity when using the mono metal bullets.

Just some of my observations.

Paul

Thanks Paul. The Winchester factory 240 JSP had sticky (try stuck) extraction on my first trip out with it. I’ll have to look at some other powders. This 10grn of Unique load with the 220 XTreme Penetrator shot lights out in my 2 3/4” 69. Was hoping for a crossover success with the Air Weight. Doggonit, looks like more range time for me and the 329!

 

[Dave T]

Anyone who thinks factory Magnums are "very mild to shoot", is either strong as an ox, doesn't have arthritis, is much younger than me, or all of the above!

For a brief time I had a S&W 44 Mountain Lite. That's a 44 Special. It was all I could handle with Speer Gold Dots and that was 25 years ago. I wouldn't consider firing factory Magnums in a 329, but more power to ya if that's what floats yer boat. (smile)

Dave

 

[mcb]

Anyone who thinks factory Magnums are "very mild to shoot", is either strong as an ox, doesn't have arthritis, is much younger than me, or all of the above!

For a brief time I had a S&W 44 Mountain Lite. That's a 44 Special. It was all I could handle with Speer Gold Dots and that was 25 years ago. I wouldn't consider firing factory Magnums in a 329, but more power to ya if that's what floats yer boat. (smile)

Dave

I agree many of the factory 44 Mag are surprisingly stout. More so that many factory 357 Mag in my experience. So my current favorite load I am using is my reloads of a 240gr JHP at ~1340 fps. I had shot a bunch of this a few weeks ago at a range session and then switch to some inexpensive Remington UMC 180gr JSP that I had bought mostly due to the great price so as to get the brass and have fun plinking, since I assumed they would be mild, as least as far at 44 Mag goes. I did not have my chrono with me but given the recoil and fireball they were very stout and were more obnoxious to shoot then my regular loads. I only shot half the box and will save the rest of the carbine.

 

[2 Crow]

Anyone who thinks factory Magnums are "very mild to shoot", is either strong as an ox, doesn't have arthritis, is much younger than me, or all of the above!

For a brief time I had a S&W 44 Mountain Lite. That's a 44 Special. It was all I could handle with Speer Gold Dots and that was 25 years ago. I wouldn't consider firing factory Magnums in a 329, but more power to ya if that's what floats yer boat. (smile)

Dave

I’d like to think that as I’ve grown older I’ve become a little wiser. Not a lot, just a little.
I have become a fan of letting the big slug do it’s job without needing to add a lot of horsepower behind it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Anyone who thinks factory Magnums are "very mild to shoot", is either strong as an ox, doesn't have arthritis, is much younger than me, or all of the above!

Yes.

As one who has arthritis and tendonitis, I want to warn those who do not that repeated shooting of handguns with heavy recoil can contribute to those issues and to permanent nerve damage.

That includes light alloy .38 revolvers with service loads.

 

[.38 Special]

The simplest answer is that those loads are overpressure for your gun. Lehigh lists 10 grains of Unique as maximum. Monometal bullets, in my limited experience with them, tend to get cranky faster than do cast. I would start with the starting load of eight grains and work up. Well, actually, I wouldn't work up, as I limit use of Unique in the Magnum to fairly light loads. For hotter loads, I would use a slower powder.

Please let us know what happens!

 

[Texas10mm]

Aren't those titanium cylinders known for sticky extraction?

 

[Gordon]

Unique above 8 grains with real heavy bullets get right up there pressure wise in .44 spl. cases . Trust me 8 grains of Unique in a .44 spl with a wide nose 260 grain hard cast bullet produces 1000 fps in a 4" barrel ! It is considered +p (whatever that is) and recommended for Ruger Black hawks ect or Big frame DA revolvers. a "standard factory pressure " load of 6.5 grains of Unique gives 850 FPS from a 4 5/8 Ruger with that bullet and could be used sparingly in a good Charter Arms Bull Dog if the shooter can stand it !