.32ACP PPK

[Kentucky Rifle]

I've never owned a PPK so I'd appreciate a little advice here. My wife's father is going to buy one. It's advertized as a French made "Manhurin" (I probably spelled that wrong, but you know what I mean) police trade in with the condition being listed as "very good". He asked me about the pistol last night and, rather than guess, I told him I'd ask you guys and get back to him. Apparently, a gun shop in a nearby town made a purchase of several of these pistols. They're all blue. Is that model PPK any good?

Thanks,
KR

 

[RON in PA]

Is that a PPK or a PP? The reason I ask is because there are a bunch of milsurplus (Euro-police surplus) in the country presently. Just a bit larger than the PPK. Well made guns, but a wimpy cartridge( I have a German made Walther PP actually made in Germany after Walther and the French parted company, but the Manurheins are just as good and all Walthers with s/n below 700,000 were French made even if marked and proofed in Germany). True PPKs have not been importable since 1968 because of their small size and that is the reason for the PPK/S version with the PP sized grip.

 

[JBP]

I just ordered one from Centerfire Systems after going back over to TFL and doing a search on Manhurin. The posts were mostly favorable. The .32 ACP is not my favorite round but I just renewed my C&R and that's the first thing to come up that I did not have that looked pretty decent.

 

[DMK]

JBP, I just got my Manhurin PP from Centerfire. It's got beautiful bluing. There's very minor holster wear at the nose, but a little cold blue fixed that right up.

First thing I did was field strip it and detail strip the slide to clean all the storage dust out and soak it in FP-10 overnight. It's a very nicely made pistol. I usually replace all the springs on my C&R pistols, but this one didn't even need that.

I'd highly recomend getting a Manhurin PP that's in good shape. The CZ-70 is another nice pistol of this style and caliber, perhaps better in many ways except finish.

 

[gumshoe4]

KR, I had seen these guns advertised in the CDNN catalog and was in despair thinking that they would never be sold here in the PRK, but a local dealer here in CA is selling them as C&Rs. The guns are supposed to be ex-police guns.

I have no logical reason whatever to buy this gun, but I've always wanted a Walther (or clone) PP in 7.65mm (.32 ACP), so I bought one. Like DMK's gun, mine has beautiful bluing with a little honest holster wear. It came with a "shoulder holster", two mags (one flat bottom and the other a finger grip), a cleaning rod and the original box. I have not yet shot it, but the DA trigger pull, although a little heavy, is very smooth. I believe it'll do fine at the range. This gun is tight and ready for range time and I'm really glad I got it.

I've ordered another mag for it and a set of rosewood contour grips from www.handgungrips.com which will really spruce the gun up. I'm not fond of the factory bakelite grips on the gun and the finger grip mag).

I think you could do far worse than to consider one of these fine little pistols. The workmanship is great, the condition (at least of mine) is very acceptable and it's definitely a little piece of shooting history. Wouldn't make a bad personal defense gun, either, for a person sensitive to recoil.

Bob
TFL# 8032

 

[gumshoe4]

I forgot to add a little of the history of the Manurhin PP.

After WW II, Walther and other German arms manufacturers were forbidden under the surrender agreement to produce firearms. In order to get around this, Walther made an agreement with Manurhin, a French firearms maker, to build PPs under license. It would appear to me that the design, engineering and quality of construction are essentially as good as the Walther guns made in Germany.

 

[tbeb]

I have a .32 ACP Manurhin PP. Paid $225 used very good. Came with 2 owner's manuals--one German, one English, and a spare magazine. It is reliable with 71 gr. FMJ, and Speer Gold Dot 60 gr. JHP. (Doesn't like Silvertip or Corbon JHP's. Failures to eject with Silvertip and failures to feed with Corbon.) It is very accurate.

 

[cslinger]

I have a Manurhin Walther PP in .32 and it is one of the most beautiful guns I own. The bluing is very very nice and the fit and finish is very exacting.

I have only used FMJ ammo but have had no problems at all. The only things that you have to watch out for, in my experience, is slide bite and heavy double action triggers.

I have small hands so slide bite doesn't concern me but the double action triggers on these guns, at least when new, are very, very, very, heavy. My guess is they were designed this way because the manufacturer new that they would just be thrown into pockets and what not without any kind of trigger protection.

I love mine. Not so much for it's uber, tactical, usefullness but more fore it's classic lines, beautiful bluing and ohh so Bond appeal. Besides a .32 caliber fmj bullet is like a brick through a plate glass window on the power spectrum.

The only Walther PP/PPK/PPKS I have been told to avoid are the interarms imports of the late 70s and 80s. These apparently were not Walther quality by a long shot.

Everybody I have talked to who has a Manurhin is very happy with the quality and reliability. I know I am.

Chris

 

[461]

Everything I've ever heard about the Manurhin pistols has been favorable. I have a prewar model PP in .32acp and a fairly recent PPK/s and love them both. Both are highly accurate and have yet to have any jams at all in well over a thousand rounds out of each. I had the Prewar PP done up in Met-A-Life as the bluing was almost all gone and had a little pitting and now it looks as good as it shoots. Now all you collectors don't start jumping down my throat, the gun was a mess when I got it so there was no collector value at all. Buy it, they're great.

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

Ron...

You're right. I called my FIL and it's a "PP". You guys have just about convinced me to buy one also! Of course, everybody KNOWS how difficult it is to convince ME to purchase a new pistol.

KR

 

[BHP9]

Is that a PPK or a PP? The reason I ask is because there are a bunch of milsurplus (Euro-police surplus) in the country presently. Just a bit larger than the PPK. Well made guns, but a wimpy cartridge( I have a German made Walther PP actually made in Germany after Walther and the French parted company, but the Manurheins are just as good and all Walthers with s/n below 700,000 were French made even if marked and proofed in Germany). True PPKs have not been importable since 1968 because of their small size and that is the reason for the PPK/S version with the PP sized grip

After WW II, Walther and other German arms manufacturers were forbidden under the surrender agreement to produce firearms. In order to get around this, Walther made an agreement with Manurhin, a French firearms maker, to build PPs under license. It would appear to me that the design, engineering and quality of construction are essentially as good as the Walther guns made in Germany.

I see from these posts that there is a lot of misuderstanding about the Walthers made after WII.

There were absolutely no Walthers made in Germany after WWII and I have a letter from the President of Manurhin that details this.

Pistols stamped "Made in Germany" after WWII were not. They were all made by Manurhin then shipped to Germany where they were proof tested , stamped "Made in Germany",and then blued and then shipped out for export to many countries.

Manurhin PP series pistols are the finest in the world being made with outstanding workmanship and made of only first class materiels, no junk castings, no junk plastic or sheet metal.

The only thing I take issue with is the caliber. Its a realatively weak one and I personally carry mine with full metal jacketed ammo not trusting the lighter 60 grain soft points to have the necessary penetration necessary for defense from all angles of fire.

 

[gumshoe4]

"There were absolutely no Walthers made in Germany after WWII and I have a letter from the President of Manurhin that details this."

Isn't that what I said?



Bob
TFL# 8032:

 

[Tamara]

Manurhin PP series pistols are the finest in the world being made with outstanding workmanship and made of only first class materiels, no junk castings, no junk plastic or sheet metal.

...too bad mine wouldn't feed three consecutive rounds no matter what we did to it.

That little Manure .32 was a durned accurate single-shot, though, considering that it had a trigger like a piece of agricultural machinery and sights that couldn't be seen without a scanning electron microscope.

 

[gumshoe4]

Thanks, Tamara. I feel a lot better about my purchase, now.

It'll be interesting to see whether the gun functions properly when I take it to the range or whether it's possible that you maybe just got a bad one. In either case, I'll be sure to post the range results right here, bad or good.

Bob
TFL# 8032

 

[Tamara]

Mine was a very early Manhurin gun*, which might explain why it was rough as a cob. (Still had real pretty bluing, though...) I suspect the problems were largely due to the magazine, but I wasn't going to spend a lot of money tracking down PP mags for a gun that I'd paid $75 for on a lark. We tried one other mag (PP mags don't grow on trees ) and it improved things somewhat (Down to one or two jams per mag), but by then the shiny had kind of worn off the project for me. I ended up trading it for a Mauser HSc.





*Doubly interesting for being Manhurin marked but a pre-GCA'68 gun. (ie No importer's marks.) Apparently it had been bought overseas at one time and brought home.

 

[David S]

so is Centerfire a pretty reputable dealer? they seem to have a few PPs in stock....

 

[Al Thompson]

I think Centerfire is fine. I've purchased stuff from them before.

My Manhurin PPK/S in .22 works very well for a Euro .22. Like stingers, chokes on cheap stuff.

Also had one of the .32's converted to .380 that shot fine.

 

[BHP9]

Mine was a very early Manhurin gun*, which might explain why it was rough as a cob. (Still had real pretty bluing, though...) I suspect the problems were largely due to the magazine, but I wasn't going to spend a lot of money tracking down PP mags for a gun that I'd paid $75 for on a lark. We tried one other mag (PP mags don't grow on trees ) and it improved things somewhat (Down to one or two jams per mag), but by then the shiny had kind of worn off the project for me. I ended up trading it for a Mauser HSc.

Now we are getting closer to the truth. I never have seen a bad Manurhin and magazine problems due to being damaged or neglected certainly will cause any auto pistol to fail no matter how well made it is.

I urge everyone to get your Manuhrin now before they are all gone. I just got back from a large gun show today and the dealers are buying them up and reselling them for $400 and up and they were selling them with no problems at todays show.

The little .32's can be loaded very economically with cast bullets and they feed and function just fine. Sometimes deals can even be had with fmj foreign made ammo. Recoil is lighter than the .380 and I seem to shoot the .32 a little better than my .380 Walthers that by the way were made by Manuhrin and have never failed me with either cast or jackted ammo.

Quality wise there is just no comparison to these little jewels that will never be made again because of all the high quality materiels and workmanship that went into them. Take a look yourself at one and I guarentee you will probably buy one.

And by the way if you get a good deal on one as they are avertised right now at give away prices you can probably double your money on it a soon as tomorrow. The dealers are in heaven right now because of the huge profits they are making on them.

Even if I paid $400. for one I would not feel bad because they are actually that good a pistol. Take a look at what you would pay for todays modern made junk and you will see what I am talking about.

By the way I have ownd several Mauser Hsc pistols and had problems with all of them. You can forget shooting most hollow points or soft points out of them. They have a very steep feed ramp and are best used with fmj ammo. I have seen even fjm ammo jam in these pistols. Cast bullets are impossible to use in these guns also. I owned a war time gun and 3 commercial guns down through the years and all would occasionally jam up with full metal jacketed ammo.

 

[BHP9]

That little Manure .32 was a durned accurate single-shot, though, considering that it had a trigger like a piece of agricultural machinery and sights that couldn't be seen without a scanning electron microscope.

Come on Tamara get serious. The sights found on these Walthers are way better than many pocket pistols being made today. They were by the way made for concealed carry not winning bullseye matches and the sights are plenty good enough for the intended purposes.

Lets face it if a guy like me with cataracts can bounce a tin can all over the place at 25 yards most of the people with normal eyesight will be extremely deadly with these little jewels of a pistol.

Trigger pulls on all my Walthers in the single shot mode are absolutey perfect that break like glass with no creep whatsoever. Double action pulls are naturally heavier but very smooth. I have no trouble at all hitting man size targets in double action mode a 7 and 10 yards and I can hit milk jugs in the single action mode at 60 yards.

You simply must be talking about some off brand look alike Walther and not the real Mccoy.

 

[BHP9]

To Tamara:

I just got to thinking there may be another explanation as to the problems you were having.

There were some Walthes made during the cold war years by the Communists that were in control in East Germany. These pistols were very crude and I have looked at some of them a gun shows and speculated that they were cerainly not built to the standards that the Post War Manuhrin guns were built to.

I suppose if you must get technical there were Walthers built in Germany after WWII but not by the West Germans and not available to the West or in the U.S.

Tamara you missed out on the golden opportunity to turn on the flame thrower. I was not 100 per cent correct when I said no Walther PP series pistols were made in Germany after WWII (they were being made in Communist east Germany) they just were not available or even known to the average person until recently.

It would not surpise me that this is the gun that you had, an East German Walther not a high quality one as made by Manuhrin.

 

[Tamara]

BHP9,

Come on Tamara get serious. The sights found on these Walthers are way better than many pocket pistols being made today.

I'm perfectly serious. You can get Novaks on simlarly-sized Kahrs and such. The PP/PPK sights are from a different era; sights have come a long way since then.

By the way I have ownd several Mauser Hsc pistols and had problems with all of them. You can forget shooting most hollow points or soft points out of them. They have a very steep feed ramp and are best used with fmj ammo.

Of course; that's what they were designed for.

It would not surpise me that this is the gun that you had, an East German Walther not a high quality one as made by Manuhrin.

Nope, it was definitely a French-made Manurhin. (The second high-quality mag didn't fix the problem, as noted.)

 

[Tamara]

BHP9,

They have a very steep feed ramp

Yup. Boy, look at how steep it is!

 

[Tamara]

There were absolutely no Walthers made in Germany after WWII and I have a letter from the President of Manurhin that details this.

Maybe you should scan or transcribe that letter for us, since all other sources say that Walther once again began manufacture of the PP/PPK series pistols in Germany in the 1980s. I'd be interested to see your documentation.

 

[RON in PA]

BHP9...

According to Dieter Marschall in his year 2000 book, "Walther Pistols, Models 1 Through P99", the PPs made after 1985 with s/n greater than 700,000 were made in Germany, not France.

 

[BHP9]

According to Dieter Marschall in his year 2000 book, "Walther Pistols, Models 1 Through P99", the PPs made after 1985 with s/n greater than 700,000 were made in Germany, not France.

You were not paying attention to what I was saying. We were talking about the PP series of pistols not other walthers like the P99 plastic guns.