.32ACP PPK

[BHP9]

Maybe you should scan or transcribe that letter for us, since all other sources say that Walther once again began manufacture of the PP/PPK series pistols in Germany in the 1980s. I'd be interested to see your documentation.

For those who would like to read the entire letter it is to be found in the "Original and real Swat Magazine" in the Year 1982, I cannot remember what months issue. When I get the time I will post the exact month of the issue in question.

The truth would probably never have been known if it had not been for the fact that the French lost the right to the Mauser banner label and it was given to to the Americans after they started to produce the PP series of pistols in America. Perhaps the biggest mistake Walther ever made. The reputation damage that Walther sustained from the shoddy workmanship of the American made guns lost it a lot of buisness and money right up to this very day.

 

[RON in PA]

So you quoted a 1982 magazine article, that explains your statement that no PPs were made in Germany after WW2 , Walther started making them in Germany in 1985.

If my memory serves me correctly no PPs were ever made in the US, only PPks and yes they were garbage.

 

[Tamara]

BHP9,

You were not paying attention to what I was saying. We were talking about the PP series of pistols not other walthers like the P99 plastic guns.

You were not paying attention to what he was saying: "the PPs made after 1985 with s/n greater than 700,000 were made in Germany, not France." Hope this helps.

For those who would like to read the entire letter it is to be found in the "Original and real Swat Magazine" in the Year 1982,

Ah, so you don't have the letter (as you claimed you did), just an old back issue of S.W.A.T. printed before they started making PP/PPK's in Germany again. Interesting...

 

[Jaco]

Kentucky Rifle,

To get back to the point, I have a Manurhin PPK in .32 that is my carry pistol, and is completely reliable with all ammo, and not have one jam in about 500 rounds. Buy one, you won't be sorry, the quality is simply superb.

 

[BHP9]

I looked through about 5 years of Articles and I am still looking for the letter. But I did find this other article from "Firepower Magazaine" dated March of 1988.

I will see if this picture of page 39 comes out readable. If it does not here is what some of it says.

It is no secret that these weapons even though marked made in German, have actually been manufactured in France since the end of WWII. The maker, Manurhin, has started importing these pistols under their own name and selling them at a price considerabley less than the Walther marked weapons imported by Interarms. Same quality, same pistol, just marked Manurhin instead fof Walther.

 

[BHP9]

Yup. Boy, look at how steep it is

I disagree. The Walther feed ramp is clearly showing it is almost a straight inline feed. Thats why you can use practically any bullet in them as I have done so , even blunt nose cast bullets.

I found it impossible to use most cast bullets with the extremely steep feed ramp as found on the Mauser HSC. A conical may have worked but the conicals available to me at the time were to heavy a bullet for the Mauser and even if I had had a lighter cast bullet I still have my doubts as if it would have worked.

 

[BHP9]

According to Dieter Marschall in his year 2000 book, "Walther Pistols, Models 1 Through P99", the PPs made after 1985 with s/n greater than 700,000 were made in Germany, not France.

I do remember Interarms selling Walther PP's stamped made in Germany during the 1980's but since I had seen nothing in print since the two Articles about all the Walthers being Manurhin made pistols I had assumed that these guns were also Manurhins.

If the author of this book is correct then there were PP pistols made in Germany but Not PPk or PPk's pistols.

I did not see Interarms advertising any of the PPk or PPk's pistols as being made in Germany during this time period. The only ones available were either American made guns or two small batches of Manurhin stamped guns that came and went very quickly.

If the author is correct then Then I stand corrected. but only on the manufacture of the PP pistols not the PPk or PPk's pistols.

 

[Tamara]

1

Fritz Walther fled Germany in June 1945, carrying with him the drawings of the PP. He also retained the rights to the many Walther patents granted over the years. Accordingly, he was able to license production of the PP in 1950 to the French firm Manufacture de Machines de Haut-Rhin, better known as Manhurin. They began production of the PP in 1952 at serial number 100 001. In 1973 the company already made more than 700 000 PP’s and production at the Manhurin factory stopped in the late 1980’s. In 1987 the Walther factory in Ulm took over the PP and PPK production while Manhurin dropped out of the business to concentrate on its own firearms products. As a result PP type pistols made by Manhurin are now collector’s items in their own right.

2

In 1950, the Manufacture de Machines du Haut-Rhin of Mulhouse, France started to build Walther PP's and PPK's and P.38's under license. Manurhin started in 1952 with the PP and the PPK in 1953. The Walther quality remained in these licensed copies, and kept the Walther name in the public eye untill such time they could start manufacturing again. Most PPK and PPK/S models were still manufactured in France untill as late as 1986. Parts were shipped to Walther in Ulm for final fitting, finishing, stamping, proofing, and assembly. In 1986 Walther took over production of the PP series ending their licensing agreement with Manhurin.

 

[Tamara]

BHP9,

I disagree. The Walther feed ramp is clearly showing it is almost a straight inline feed. Thats why you can use practically any bullet in them as I have done so , even blunt nose cast bullets.

Uh, that picture is of the HSc feedramp. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[BHP9]

In 1950, the Manufacture de Machines du Haut-Rhin of Mulhouse, France started to build Walther PP's and PPK's and P.38's under license. Manurhin started in 1952 with the PP and the PPK in 1953. The Walther quality remained in these licensed copies, and kept the Walther name in the public eye untill such time they could start manufacturing again. Most PPK and PPK/S models were still manufactured in France untill as late as 1986. Parts were shipped to Walther in Ulm for final fitting, finishing, stamping, proofing, and assembly. In 1986 Walther took over production of the PP series ending their licensing agreement with Manhurin

Once again this is stating it is the PP not the PPk or PPks

I think of this were not so Interarms would surely have sold the PPks pistols stamped made in Germany and Walther would never have licensed the U.S. maker to make their PPKs pistols here.

 

[Tamara]

"PP series" is generally held to include the PP, PPK, and PPK/S. You used the reference yourself in this fashion on the previous page.

(No comment on the HSc feedramp pic? )

 

[BHP9]

I think this explains why the Manurhin pistols were no longer imported. They not only lost the Walther banner trademark but were not allowed to make the guns anymore. When the parts to build them and the guns that were stocked ran out that was the end of them.

 

[BHP9]

Tamara you can play all the foolish games you wish but those of us out there that have owned and used both pistols in the flesh[/B know that the feed ramp of the Mauser Hsc is twice as steep as the Walthers. If it were not so then the Mauser would feed as well as the Walther which it surey doesn't and never will.

 

[Tamara]

Playing games? I posted a picture, to which you responded "I disagree. The Walther feed ramp is clearly showing it is almost a straight inline feed.", when the feedramp in question was that of an HSc. Is it no longer clearly showing it's almost a straight inline feed?

but those of us out there that have owned and used both pistols in the flesh[/B know that the feed ramp of the Mauser Hsc is twice as steep as the Walthers.

"In the flesh"? That's pretty funny... How do you think I got that picture, out of curiousity?

 

[BHP9]

I think everyone knows that trying to look a posted picture in no way is the same as looking at the gun in the flesh.

If I still had my Hsc I could post some really neat pictures (if I had a digital camera) of the dead lock jams these Mausers cause with cast bullets. AS a matter of fact the firing pin spring was so weak in these guns that the firing pin would pop out of the breach face and further complicate matters by locking the round into the feed ramp below it. When it did this it even jamed up with full metal jacketed ammo.

 

[Tamara]

I think everyone knows that trying to look a posted picture in no way is the same as looking at the gun in the flesh.

Apparently HSc's and PPK's are pretty hard to tell apart in posted pictures, too...

 

[gumshoe4]

BHP9, hate to say it, but she got you good, dude. You incorrectly misinterpreted the photo, got caught obfuscating about model designations and otherwise picking nits. Tamara has clearly shown that, contrary to your statement, Walther has manufactured the PP and PPK series pistols in Germany since WWII.

Now I love my PP and I'm going to be really disappointed if it ain't a shooter. Truthfully, I'm not all that happy with Tamara throwing sand in my face about my dream purchase, either, but the bottom line is that you lost the argument. It's time to be a man and admit it and BOTH OF YOU, for PETE'S SAKE-can we return to the topic, PLEASE??

Anyone ELSE care to share their experiences shooting their POSTWAR Manurhin PP .32 pistols? PLEASE? I need cheering up...currently thinking that I sunk a bunch of $$ in a piece of crap, thanks to Tamara.

Bob

 

[Al Thompson]

Bob, the one I have and the ones I've either owned or shot work fine. Don't take too much from one person's example - FWIW, I had a Dan Wesson that was idioticly finicky and a bud's Blackhawk had the hammer spur break off. Stuff happens.

Even if your .32 dosen't suit you, the price will go up.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

PLEASE? I need cheering up...currently thinking that I sunk a bunch of $$ in a piece of crap, thanks to Tamara.

Sorry, I have no comfort for you. I just can't help but find this thread both informative and amusing.

I've only shot a Walther PPK at one range session. Actually I couldn't hit crap with it.

 

[David S]

well, im pretty much set on picking up one of these manurhin PPs from crossfire err centerfire, whatever that company is..........

I know the grips are marked differently but is the slide still marked with the walther banner?

 

[Tamara]

gumshoe4,

Relax until you've taken it to the range, at least; one lemon does not a series of junk guns make.

David S,

I haven't really looked into this latest run of imports; my PP had only Manurhin markings (no Walther or importer stamps) and was marked Fabrique en Francais or whatever, rather than beingGerman-proofed.

 

[Jaco]

Tamara,

Talking about in the flesh, I've never seen a HSC. How does it's size compare to the PPK?

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

Thanks for the info, my friends...

PLUS, the chuckle.

KR

 

[David S]

hey post a pic of that mauser please.......the whole gun this time.................

Also anyone got any pics of the manhurin PPs? id like to see the markings

 

[Tamara]

The HSc is on the top right...