.32acp wound channel

[interlock]

hi guys,
i have a .32acp which i use for humane destruction of animals.
the other day i killed a deer with a single shot in the head, from the side, between eye and ear so through the brain cavity. i was using an rws 71 gr FMJ (i will be moving to hp... very dificult to get here). the exit wound was very small and death was in the blink of an eye...

but when i moved the animal i went to drag it by the antler. i found both antlers move independantly. i sumise that the skull was absolutely smashed.

i watched a program on the discovery channel about some forensic examination from ww2 where the victims of an atrocity were all killed by a .32 acp round to the back of the skull. The effect was to expand the inside of the skull with pressure and "undo" all of the natural seams.

I dont propose to say that the .32 acp is the be all and end all, i dont have the experience to do so. But, i can say that at close range through the skull it to be horribly effective.

just an observation.

 

[NOLAEMT]

at point blank range into the skull, even a .22 can be instantly fatal.

But in reality the .32acp is, overall, a largely ineffective round when it comes to self defense.

Insufficient penetration, not enough velocity to reliably expand hollow points (and then even less penetration). As you noticed, small wound channels.

But I am talking about self defense, for your purposes it sounds like it is ideal, I would stick with the FMJ personally, as the hollow points are usually lacking in penetration.

 

[MikeJackmin]

I have read that .22 revolvers were used in some rural slaughterhouses, back in the old days. I have to assume it worked well, as I don't suppose they would have tolerated too many failures in an operation like that.

The brain vault is pretty much a closed box. I suppose the ideal cartridge for this sort of work would be powerful enough to enter the vault consistently, but light enough not to exit. All the energy would transfer into disrupting the brain, because it would have nowhere else to go. If the shock wave were sufficient to open the seams of the skull without actually breaking through, that would probably represent the maximum power level for that particular approach.

I'll further speculate that a small-diameter FMJ might be ideal. A larger bullet would need more velocity to reliably penetrate, perhaps more than the .32 has to offer. I remember reading a Ross Seyfreid article where he describes disappointing results using a snub .38 in this role, until he loaded up some hard cast lead wadcutters over a fairly stiff powder charge. Your current load might already be right in the sweet spot.

 

[threefortyduster]

I can't talk too much about wound channels, but just this past Friday I did some amateur testing on the .32 that my wife has.

With a 60 gr hollow point, she shot it through the exact middle of a 1 gallon milk jug, it expanded beautifully, but it only went through the milk jug, through 4 layers of denim, and about 3/4" through a cardboard box filled with wet newspaper. Compare it to penetration in an animal, and it would probably only be about 3 1/2 or 4".

With a 71 gr FMJ, it was very consistent, through the same size jug of water, jeans, and box, but went about 7 inches into the box. We found 4 of the bullets were stopped in the same piece of paper.

After that, we will keep carrying the FMJs in the gun.

 

[Torgy]

007

It was good enough for James Bond.

 

[481]

hi guys,
i have a .32acp which i use for humane destruction of animals.
the other day i killed a deer with a single shot in the head, from the side, between eye and ear so through the brain cavity. i was using an rws 71 gr FMJ (i will be moving to hp... very dificult to get here). the exit wound was very small and death was in the blink of an eye...

but when i moved the animal i went to drag it by the antler. i found both antlers move independantly. i sumise that the skull was absolutely smashed.

i watched a program on the discovery channel about some forensic examination from ww2 where the victims of an atrocity were all killed by a .32 acp round to the back of the skull. The effect was to expand the inside of the skull with pressure and "undo" all of the natural seams.

I dont propose to say that the .32 acp is the be all and end all, i dont have the experience to do so. But, i can say that at close range through the skull it to be horribly effective.

just an observation.

Was the .32 an issued/service pistol?

 

[Torgy]

Hydrostatic Shock

By the way, you're describing hydrostatic shock. If you're shooting something from point-blank distance, you'll have the velocity necessary to create serious hydrostatic shock that can masserate a brain (for head shot) or vital organs (for a body shot). This would be the case even for the .32. However, if you look at the ballistics tables, you'll see that the velocity on the .32 drops significantly even out to 10 yards. Any projectile with a velocity below, say, 750 FPS won't yield hydrostatic shock.

Hydrostatic shock is something that isn't factored into the foot lbs/energy formula. If you watch slow motion video of a .357 Sig going through a block of ballistics gel, or even a 9mm +p+ 115 grain, you'll see these rounds cause significantly more indirect damage than, say, the slower moving 230-grain .45 ACP. The exit wound, or the expansion of the bullet itself, may be larger with the .45. However, the wound channel will always be significantly larger with the 125-grain .357 mag/.357 Sig, or even the 9mm +p 115 or 124 grain. And therein lies the beauty of the .40 SW. With its velocity and bullet weight, you're getting the best of both worlds -- direct and indirect damage.

This is all documented by forensics and ballistics experts -- people who are much smarter than I am. So, don't shoot the messenger.

 

[hatchetbearer]

Was the .32 an issued/service pistol?

Yes. Although he is likely referring to Germans using captured Spanish and French pistols, Even the US issued .32 acp pistols to officers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model_1903_Pocket_Hammerless#General_Officer.27s_Models

 

[Jim K]

In the WWII era, millions of German and foreign pistols in 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) were used by German military and security forces. In fact, the 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) was not in the German supply system and pistols in that caliber were rarely issued, though some officers and others used privately owned guns in that calilber.

For a contact shot to the head, it can be noted that no bullet is needed. The Russian KGB carried out executions by shooting the victim in the back of the head with a blank. There was no concern about over-penetration or a backstop, since there was no bullet; the muzzle blast drove pieces of the skull into the brain with lethal effect.

Jim

 

[Jaymo]

It worked in the case of Jon-Erik Hexum. He accidentally killed himself with a blank to the head.

 

[481]

Yes. Although he is likely referring to Germans using captured Spanish and French pistols, Even the US issued .32 acp pistols to officers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model_1903_Pocket_Hammerless#General_Officer.27s_Models

Perhaps I framed the question less clearly that I should've- I was asking about the OP's use of the pistol that he mentions in post #1. His profile states that he is a Police Officer and I was simply wondering of the pistol that he used was an issued weapon or not.

 

[VPLthrneck]

i have a .32acp which i use for humane destruction of animals.
i was using an rws 71 gr FMJ. the exit wound was very small and death was in the blink of an eye

It sounds like the 71 grain FMJ is the perfect round to be using for that purpose.

 

[k_dawg]

There also seems to be a significant difference between European and American standards for the 7.65 Browning/.32 ACP.

When I used to carry my Beretta, I used the Sellier & Bellot FMJ. 73grn @ ~900ftps muzzle velocity.

 

[threefortyduster]

When I used to carry my Beretta, I used the Sellier & Bellot FMJ. 73grn @ ~900ftps muzzle velocity.

We've used the Winchester White Box 71 gr FMJ, it's a flat nose, also around 900 fps.

The other stuff I've used was Georgia Arms 73 gr FMJ round nose, which they claimed I believe 1000 fps. It shoots good, but I like the flat nose.

 

[interlock]

Perhaps I framed the question less clearly that I should've- I was asking about the OP's use of the pistol that he mentions in post #1. His profile states that he is a Police Officer and I was simply wondering of the pistol that he used was an issued weapon or not.

no, i am not issued the pistol through work. I do get called to the destruction of animals , not in my capacity as a police officer but as a trained and experienced deer manager who is on a list of responders used by the police and rspca

 

[Kiln]

The .32acp works fine for putting down animals. A point blank headshot is usually instantly fatal. I've used the .32acp to put down an injured dog before (ran over and horrifically injured but alive) and it performed it's intended purpose.

 

[jimwill48]

Remember in the 70's a slaughter house I was close to used a .32 acp bang stick to kill both pigs and cattle a quick hit to the forehead and that was it. Never needed any follow up and bullet always stayed in the skull. The ammo they used was called a cattle killer, if I remember right it was a standard 32 acp loaded with a kind of half jacketed round nose soft point. I was given 50 or so rounds and they worked find in a old FIE Titan .32 I had at the time...

 

[Kiln]

Remember in the 70's a slaughter house I was close to used a .32 acp bang stick to kill both pigs and cattle a quick hit to the forehead and that was it. Never needed any follow up and bullet always stayed in the skull. The ammo they used was called a cattle killer, if I remember right it was a standard 32 acp loaded with a kind of half jacketed round nose soft point. I was given 50 or so rounds and they worked find in a old FIE Titan .32 I had at the time...

I know this is kind of off topic but I've seen tons of those Titan 2 pistols around local shops for around $150 or so in great condition. They worth the money?

 

[481]

Perhaps I framed the question less clearly that I should've- I was asking about the OP's use of the pistol that he mentions in post #1. His profile states that he is a Police Officer and I was simply wondering of the pistol that he used was an issued weapon or not.

no, i am not issued the pistol through work. I do get called to the destruction of animals , not in my capacity as a police officer but as a trained and experienced deer manager who is on a list of responders used by the police and rspca

Ah, thanks. That's what I was looking for.

 

[Pilot]

"Like a brick through a plate glass window".

 

[jimwill48]

@ Kiln...I liked the one I had. Never jammed. I carried it as a pocket back up when I was a cop. I would like to get another but have not run across any here in NC

 

[Zaydok Allen]

which i use for humane destruction of animals

I don't know why, but this phrase makes me laugh. I've never heard it put quite like that unless "Destroying a rabid animal" is the discussion. I always hear "put down" an animal.

That would be a great marketing gimick for a 32 acp pocket pistol.

"32 acp...... The Humane Destroyer" It makes it sound like some super cartridge.

 

[Eb1]

I have a .32 H&R Magnum 2" revolver. I had to dispatch a deer that was flailing like crazy. I could get within 20 feet of this deer flopping.
I dispaced him using a .32 H&R Magnum 100 grain XTP @ 1100 fps +/- 30fps.

I hit the deer in the neck. It broke/devastated two vertebrae, and got stuck in the outer skin on the opposite side. The bullet traveled 10", opened nicely, held together, and broke bone. It was very impressive in my eyes.

This is one of my main carry guns. The other is a .44 SPC Rossi M720.
I do not feel under gunned by my .32 H&R Mag out of a 2" revolver, and I get an extra round. This is kinda off topic being that a .32 H&R is not a .32 ACP.

 

[Kiln]

@ Kiln...I liked the one I had. Never jammed. I carried it as a pocket back up when I was a cop. I would like to get another but have not run across any here in NC

Thanks, I'd been wondering because they look nice and feel decent in the hand too.