350legend issues.

[Axis II]

My buddy is having a heck of a time getting 350legend to shoot out of 2 rifles.

He’s loading the Hornady FTX bullets, tried nickel brass, factory brass, new brass, all same OAL and charge but can’t stay consistent. One rifle is a CVA single shot and the other a savage 110 in a bedded Boyd’s stock. One set of loads is great and when he reloads the brass it turns into the 2nd picture.

I can’t think of a reason it’s so bad. He did mention that chrono is showing over 100fps changes in velocity. He said new brass shot the best groups but when he reloads it a second or third time it’s bad groups.

 

[earlthegoat2]

What powder?

Lil Gun has worked best for me for accuracy but I usually use H110.

I think you need to tweak the load to get that 100fps back. Either with more powder or changing powder depending on what you are using now.

 

[AJC1]

The big issue with that round that I'm tracking is it headspaces on the forward rim like an oversized pistol case. This would be a great discussion for someone like livelife that's heavy into competition shooting semi autos.

 

[Axis II]

The big issue with that round that I'm tracking is it headspaces on the forward rim like an oversized pistol case. This would be a great discussion for someone like livelife that's heavy into competition shooting semi autos.

Do you think him trimming the cases to a certain length could have messed with headspace?

@LiveLife maybe has insight

 

[Axis II]

What powder?

Lil Gun has worked best for me for accuracy but I usually use H110.

I think you need to tweak the load to get that 100fps back. Either with more powder or changing powder depending on what you are using now.

I think lil gun. I asked but I think he went to bed early cause I got no response.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I think your friend just have to do some boring old load development.

Ladders and finding the node and whatnot.

 

[Axis II]

I think your friend just have to do some boring old load development.

Ladders and finding the node and whatnot.

He’s done the ladder load from Hornady start to Hodgdon max. In the one target the groups are great. Next time he loads the same combo it could shoot great and the next batch it’s bad. He weighs each charge he says and measures oal on each one.

 

[LiveLife]

buddy is having a heck of a time getting 350legend to shoot out of 2 rifles ... He’s loading the Hornady FTX bullets, tried nickel brass, factory brass, new brass, all same OAL and charge but can’t stay consistent. One rifle is a CVA single shot and the other a savage 110 in a bedded Boyd’s stock. One set of loads is great and when he reloads the brass it turns into the 2nd picture.

I can’t think of a reason it’s so bad. He did mention that chrono is showing over 100fps changes in velocity. He said new brass shot the best groups but when he reloads it a second or third time it’s bad groups.

There are not only reloading variables but shooting variables at play also.

Do the rifles produce similar "inaccuracy/inconsistency" with factory ammo? If so, then it may be shooter input on group inconsistency. If not, then I would suspect the reloads. I would verify this first before anything.

During my 10,000+ round 22LR testing tracking every 5/10 shot groups, I started to see accuracy inconsistency trends to where if scope mount/ring bolts got loose, I would see funky things happening with groups. And "flyers" I blamed on other things ... Now I KNOW they are me pulling/pushing the trigger which in turn moves the muzzle.

I now torque down every bolt and Loctite everything I don't want moving. So have your buddy recheck everything and torque all the bolts to proper inch/pounds.

Then he can chase after accuracy nodes/barrel timing/harmonics with his powder charges.

 

[AJC1]

Do you think him trimming the cases to a certain length could have messed with headspace?

@LiveLife maybe has insight

I see load development with this case being frustrating to a lot of people. Measuring headspace and controlling it Is important. On a lot of pistols the extractor is strong enough to hold the case in.position. I know in glock pistols guys shoot 380 in a 9mm and 40 in a 10mm because the extractor will hold the case tight enough to allow the firing pin to light off the case. Uniformity is important, but the common practice of uniforming to the shortest case may work against you.

 

[LiveLife]

I am not familiar with 350 Legend but a quick read revealed that SAAMI specs bullets sized from .354" to .357" could be used - https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/whats-going-on-with-350-legend/

So I would slug the barrel and match the bullet diameter so it is not undersized.

 

[AJC1]

I am not familiar with 350 Legend but a quick read revealed that SAAMI specs 9mm bullets sized from .354" to .357" could be used - https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/whats-going-on-with-350-legend/

So I would slug the barrel and match the bullet diameter so it is not undersized.

It's basically a long 9mm not really a rifle, and headspaces the same way. I believe this issue will be a problem encountered in auto pistols. I may be wrong and I'll own it if so.

 

[AK Hunter]

Do you think him trimming the cases to a certain length could have messed with headspace?

@LiveLife maybe has insight

The 350 Legend does head space off of the case rim so you may be trimming too short or crimping too tight, that's all I can think of.
My 350 Legend AR is easy to load for & I get tight patterns from my loads. Yes you have to load it like a long 9mm because it not much more than an over sized pistol round in a rifle.

 

[LiveLife]

The big issue with that round that I'm tracking is it headspaces on the forward rim like an oversized pistol case. This would be a great discussion for someone like livelife

Do you think him trimming the cases to a certain length could have messed with headspace?

If a case that headspaces on case mouth is trimmed too short, round will start to "headspace" off extractor and if too short, bullet/case mouth will actually dangle loose in the chamber held back by the extractor.

He did mention that chrono is showing over 100fps changes in velocity.

And depending on how generous the chamber, gas leakage around the case neck could really become an issue for higher pressure 350 Legend that is spec'd to operate around 55,000 psi. Is there tell-tale sign of black soot on case neck to indicate gas leakage?

But the shooter is having accuracy issue with new brass after one reloading (Unless case is already being trimmed), so I would start with bullet to barrel fit first.

Is Hornady bullet .355" or .357"? If bullet diameter is .355" when it should be .357", that could explain a lot.

 

[Axis II]

There are not only reloading variables but shooting variables at play also.

Do the rifles produce similar "inaccuracy/inconsistency" with factory ammo? If so, then it may be shooter input on group inconsistency. If not, then I would suspect the reloads. I would verify this first before anything.

During my 10,000+ round 22LR testing tracking every 5/10 shot groups, I started to see accuracy inconsistency trends to where if scope mount/ring bolts got loose, I would see funky things happening with groups. And "flyers" I blamed on other things ... Now I KNOW they are me pulling/pushing the trigger which in turn moves the muzzle.

I now torque down every bolt and Loctite everything I don't want moving. So have your buddy recheck everything and torque all the bolts to proper inch/pounds.

Then he can chase after accuracy nodes/barrel timing/harmonics with his powder charges.

He says factory ammo out of both rifles touches holes at 100yard or at least close to it. This led me to believe something was wrong with the reloading process but I can’t put my finger on it.

 

[Axis II]

What powder?

Lil Gun has worked best for me for accuracy but I usually use H110.

I think you need to tweak the load to get that 100fps back. Either with more powder or changing powder depending on what you are using now.

He says tried Lil gun and no consistency. He is now using win 296 and still no consistency.

 

[Axis II]

If a case that headspaces on case mouth is trimmed too short, round will start to "headspace" off extractor and if too short, bullet/case mouth will actually dangle loose in the chamber held back by the extractor.

And depending on how generous the chamber, gas leakage around the case neck could really become an issue for higher pressure 350 Legend that is spec'd to operate around 55,000 psi. Is there tell-tale sign of black soot on case neck to indicate gas leakage?

But the shooter is having accuracy issue with new brass after one reloading (Unless case is already being trimmed), so I would start with bullet to barrel fit first.

Is Hornady bullet .355" or .357"? If bullet diameter is .355" when it should be .357", that could explain a lot.

Hornady book says .355 and the factory Hornady shoots fine. He’s using win 296 I never had luck with that powder so could be his issue.

 

[Blue68f100]

When was the last time he cleaned the barrel? He may have some copper/carbon fouling that maybe causing the problem. I have one gun that likes a dirty barrel, and another the accuracy drops off quickly after a small count.

 

[AJC1]

Are we using the same bullet when trying to replicate factory results. You will never get fgmm results using ppu bullets...

 

[Axis II]

Are we using the same bullet when trying to replicate factory results. You will never get fgmm results using ppu bullets...

Using the hornady ftx deer bullet for all loads

 

[earlthegoat2]

or crimping too tight

That is something I didn’t think of.

What is the crimping die used and the setup? A Lee collet crimp or FCD may be the way to go.

I use an FCD for 450 BM which is technically similar to reload for as 350L and have no complaints.

 

[Axis II]

That is something I didn’t think of.

What is the crimping die used and the setup? A Lee collet crimp or FCD may be the way to go.

I use an FCD for 450 BM which is technically similar to reload for as 350L and have no complaints.

I just asked and he said no crimp. He’s so frustrated he said he’s going back to factory ammo and done with loading for this caliber.

 

[CoalTrain49]

All the woes of loading the 30 carbine except more pressure to deal with. Why was the cartridge invented again? I forgot.

 

[LiveLife]

All the woes of loading the 30 carbine except more pressure to deal with. Why was the cartridge invented again? I forgot.

35 caliber (9x43mm) up to 55,000 psi set to compete against 450 Bushmaster with cheaper components suited for deer/hog hunting with lighter recoil/less muzzle blast to introduce younger shooters to hunting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.350_Legend

"SAAMI-standardized straight-walled intermediate rifle cartridge developed by Winchester Repeating Arms. The cartridge was designed for use in American states that have specific regulations for deer hunting with straight-walled centerfire cartridges"​

Do the rifles produce similar "inaccuracy/inconsistency" with factory ammo? ... If not, then I would suspect the reloads

He says factory ammo out of both rifles touches holes at 100yard or at least close to it. This led me to believe something was wrong with the reloading process but I can’t put my finger on it.

Factory ammo producing "holes touching" groups at 100 yards rules out issues with rifle and shooter.

I think inconsistent inaccuracy of reloads is due to reloading variables.

He says tried Lil gun and no consistency. He is now using win 296 and still no consistency.

Lil' Gun and H110 (Same as W296) produced relatively smaller groups in this Shooting Times reload comparison so possibly the accuracy potential of your buddy's bullet/powder combination was not attained? - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-350-legend/377056



And suggested these reloading tips:

• .350 Legend case is a straight-wall case with a slightly tapered body so that it will reliably feed in a bolt-action or semiautomatic rifle.
  
  
• .350 Legend is rimless and headspaces on the case mouth.

• SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) is 55,000 psi ... more likely to stretch when fired and resized. Trimming each batch to uniform length proved to be an important step to ensure correct headspace.

• Powder burn rates from medium to slow.

• Small Rifle primers are recommended to withstand the significantly increased operating pressure.

• Hodgdon’s data sheet revealed a serious problem with reloading the new cartridge ... required but unique 0.355" Hornady 170 gr JSP and Winchester 180 gr Power-Point. All the rest were jacketed pistol bullets.

• 0.358" diameter bullet loaded in the .350 Legend’s case ... too large to allow the round to chamber (Hence .357" max diameter)

• Pistol bullets of .35 caliber typically range from 0.354 to 0.357 inch (jacketed) ... There’s a good selection of 9mm/.35-caliber jacketed pistol bullets, but because they’re typically launched at 900 to 1,300 fps, they’ll likely not be strong enough to effectively drop a deer or a hog.

• In previous Shooting Times ... Ruger American Ranch .350 Legend bolt-action rifle ... was, at best, a 2-MOA combo suitable for taking deer and hogs at ranges up to 175 yards ... Ruger AR-556 MPR autoloader performed similarly

But this Shooting Times article was done in June of 2020. Browsing different forums with newer posts report accuracy potential of sub MOA depending on powders/bullets/velocity loads/rifles used as well demonstrated by your buddy's factory "holes touching" 100 yard groups.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Now I remember after reading your link.

the .350 Legend is suitable for use in AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles,[1][4] and will fit in most standard AR-15 magazines without modification.

That was easy for me to forget having never owned an AR.

 

[straightShot]

Using the hornady ftx deer bullet for all loads

I'm using 165 gr. FTX and H110. My bolt action Savage Axis seems to get good groups. Using the same load with new AR15 results in about a 6+ inch group from the sixth round on until the barrel is cleaned. Gas looks good, with the cases all landing at 4:00 on the ground. I tried a slightly lighter load, and I had cycling issues. I’m going to see if the accuracy falls off with a slightly hotter round or if I can get it to remain consistent.