.357 125 gr. vs 140 gr. vs 158 gr. SD ammo

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westernrover

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I need to go load a few hundred cartridges for practice. I have practice bullets in all the weights. I want to load the same weight I'll be carrying.

I used to carry 125 grain Golden Sabers in a snubby. Then I switched to Barnes 140 gr, and then a 5 inch barrel. With the longer barrel, it would seem velocities can be achieved with any bullet weight to give sufficient penetration.

So what's your take on the best .357 bullet weight for personal protection? I've seen the gel tests and read lots of anecdotes, but haven't made up my mind.

If I shoot wet targets like soda or water jugs, the 125 gr hollow points at over 1700 fps just explode them. Totally spectacular. They don't penetrate as well as the heavier bullets, but based on published gel tests, they still penetrate what many people consider to be more than enough.

I was happy to go to the heavier bullets because they penetrated more with the lower velocities out of the short barrel, but then I also switched to a longer barrel. I suppose now the answer is "it doesn't really matter," but I still have to choose one or the other.
 
I like heavier bullets to ensure penetration, especially if angry critters ar a factor.
 
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I was issued the 125 for several years, and have used 125-180 grain in various .357 revolvers. Never got in any shoot outs with a .357, but of the two you mention, might go with the 140 grain because of it's lower velocity and likely greater penetration. The Lucky Gunner tests might provide some insight into the question.....
 
Any .357 mag load can be used for defense. For potential black bear, cougar threats or dear hunting, the heavier 158 grain bullets are better due the the deeper penetration. Select JHP or Solids as appropriate.

The full power .357 mag 125gr semi JHP has a well deserved reputation as the best man stopper of any caliber or bullet. Its downside is lots of recoil, muzzle flash and blast. Was shooting my 3.5" S&W 27 at the indoor range the other day with hand loaded 125gr JHP's 13.8 grains of Blue Dot that was put together in 1989 and was asked by several people if I was shooting a .44 mag. This load is a close duplicate of full power factory ammo in velocity and all other aspects.
 
The 357mag with a 125gr HP is known as a fight stopper
The 357mag 125gr Golden Saber is a lower velocity load .. alot of people chooses it due to its reduced recoil...
The Hornady 357mag 125gr FTX and Remington 357mag 125gr SHP are my choices for SD ...
For woods carry ,Underwood 357mag
158gr GD
 
You will want to consider the bullets you are using also. Some Plated bullets expand a lot more easily than conventional jacketed bullets. Speer Gold Dots and Hornady XTP's would be a good example of this.

Bob R
 
a heavy bullet traveling slower will be easier on the ears. 180 grains @ 1,000 fps should work well for your needs.

luck,

murf
 
IMHO, the primary phrase in your title is "SD ammo". If we are talking civilian SD against two legged predators with .357 mag,then penetration is generally not the major concern....over penetration is. This is why good quality 125 grainer JHPs are my choice. They don't have to be pushed at ear blasting sizzling velocities either in order to expand since many are designed for .38 special velocities. Actually, due to the aforementioned, many JHPs 125s are pushed too fast in .357 as your example of what a 125er @ 1700 fps does to water jugs. On human flesh, at SD distances, 1350fps will do all you need it to without the spectacular flash and recoil. If one is looking for SD against four legged varmints, the the common sense thing to do is to go heavy and as fast as you can accurately manage.
 
" it's downside is lots of recoil, muzzle blast and flash.." That's a pretty significant downside on a dark street in my opinion. To me all of that blast and flash is totally unnecessary if a .44 or .45 SWC at 900 fps. will get the job done without all of that flash and bang. Makes practicing much more enjoyable and makes your gun last years longer also. I have never understood the concept of choosing a 125 gr. flame thrower load when you can use a 240 gr. bullet without all of the "special effects". Try shooting bowling pin matches for a few years and you'll see what I mean. A good big bore load will not only knock them down - it will blow them 3 or 4 feet behind the table. I have seen lots of .38s and 9mms bounce off of pins without even penetrating the nylon covering. (to be fair I have also seen light 185 gr. .45 bullets bounce off pins) Mass is your friend. I never really cared how long it takes my bullet to reach the target. When it finally gets there it makes a real mess out of the target.
 
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I'm primarily interested in performance for self-defense against men rather than animals. As it was mentioned, both the 125 gr and 140 gr loads have shown more than sufficient penetration with longer barrels. In denim/gel tests, averages were numbers like 18 inches and over 20 inches respectively. Expansion was also good, typically over 0.65". Some of the loads are driving the HP hard enough to peel them back past maximum diameter.

I suppose the only question is whether there is any value in the higher velocities of the lighter bullets, you know with respect to the bullet energy's ability to displace tissue beyond its elastic limits or create any remote wounding effects. Or if there is any value in overpenetration, that is penetration well beyond 18" in denim/gel tests.

I think I favor the heavier bullets because they can be loaded to something less than maximum and still deliver good penetration and expansion. The lighter bullets could deliver more "shock," but it remains elusive to me whether it's enough to matter. I've read of the 357/125's reputation as a man-stopper, fight-stopper, and the closest thing to a magic bullet etc., but I haven't seen satisfying proof it's truly different, except maybe on water jugs.
 
westernrover said:
I'm primarily interested in performance for self-defense against men rather than animals. As it was mentioned, both the 125 gr and 140 gr loads have shown more than sufficient penetration with longer barrels. In denim/gel tests, averages were numbers like 18 inches and over 20 inches respectively. Expansion was also good, typically over 0.65". Some of the loads are driving the HP hard enough to peel them back past maximum diameter.

I suppose the only question is whether there is any value in the higher velocities of the lighter bullets, you know with respect to the bullet energy's ability to displace tissue beyond its elastic limits or create any remote wounding effects. Or if there is any value in overpenetration, that is penetration well beyond 18" in denim/gel tests.

I think I favor the heavier bullets because they can be loaded to something less than maximum and still deliver good penetration and expansion. The lighter bullets could deliver more "shock," but it remains elusive to me whether it's enough to matter. I've read of the 357/125's reputation as a man-stopper, fight-stopper, and the closest thing to a magic bullet etc., but I haven't seen satisfying proof it's truly different, except maybe on water jugs.
Click to expand...
image.jpeg

The Remington 125gr 357mag Golden Saber is your reduced SD load ..
It still performs better than most ..
Unless you are wanting to go with 38Spl +P
Then I suggest Federal 130gr HST
 
After studying the lucky gunner test, I did some very unscientific testing of my own and pretty much would up with the same conclusions as lucky gunner. I carry Remington Golden Saber +P in my carry guns. I have purchased some 125 gr Golden Saber to reload and with about 5.8gr Universal (I think. My loading records are out in my loading building) I pretty much got the same results, but use factory ammo to carry. You have to be careful because Remington also makes a 125gr Golden Saber for .357 as well. It won't expand as well as the .38 version at low velocity. For practice, I shoot 130gr HyTek Coated Lead with 5.0gr of Universal. It gives the same "felt" recoil as best I can tell and shoots to the same POA as the factory Golden Saber. Until the Lucky gunner test, I was always a fan of the heavier bullets One bullet I'm currently playing around with is a GT Lead bullet. 185gr Cast Hollow Point. I think if I can get the load right, it might be one hell of a defense round. It will expand pretty good at around 900fps but to get that heavy rock going 900fps the recoil might be a little much for a lightweight 2" revolver. Weather has screwed me out of almost all of my range time since Thanksgiving.
Now that a lot of companies have go their +P 38 loads to penetrate and expand at slower velocity, I see absolutely no need to shoot .357 for SD. The +P will do the job just as well and much easier to control. I'm still a firm believer in the BEST DEFENSE ROUND as well as GUN is one you can shoot the most accurate and control for follow up shots. Most shooters can not control a .357, especially a snub nose well enough for accurate and consistent follow up shots. If the situation only winds up needing the first shot then that's fine but what if it doesn't? Its easy to step up to a paper target and shoot most anything with the first shot hitting dead center, but factor in fear, moving target, multiple targets, etc. then follow ups might be required. A wise shooting expert once told me a gun is like a parachute, if you can't use it when you need it, then you probably wont ever need it again.
 
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When it comes to .357mag at usual .357mag velocities, any of bullet weights you list will work fine for SD and you don't need premium hollow points. Old school JHP or semi-jacketed hollow points work great. But I choose 158gr for my own self.

I am partial to 158gr for a few reasons:
1. Less sharp recoil to me and easier on the gun than the 125gr pills.
2. Less cyl gap/muzzle blast than 125gr
3. Usually regulated to fixed revolver sights and less likely to run out of elevation adjustment on adjustable sights.
4. In the sweet spot, penetration-depth-wise vs gel or gel with denim barrier.
 
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