.357 158gr. Primer Selection

[Nickjc]

Hi All,

I was able to snag from federal match small magnum pistol primers.

Some loads I have looked up for Alliant 2400 which I have...says use CCI500's...

Of course I do not have any.....CCI500's

Would it be reasonable to drop the load data by say 10% +/- and substitute the magnum primer??

Your experience and thoughts are appreciated.....

 

[edelbrock]

Yes. That will be fine.

 

[harmonic]

Your magnum primers should be fine. 2400 is a slower burning powder and (in my references at least) call for a magnum pistol primer.

When working up any load, always work up to maximum very gradually.

 

[Nickjc]

BUT that would be a NO-NO for .38 special....correct?

Sometimes I do fire .38 special in the .357 frame of my Colt Trooper

 

[243winxb]

BUT that would be a NO-NO for .38 special....correct?

Mag primers Ok in 38 spec. start low, work up with powder charge. Becareful if using Alliant Bullseye, stay away from maximun powder charges with std. or mag. primers.

 

[Larry Burchfield]

magnum primers

I load all of my 357's with 2400 and magnum primers. I also use them with AA #9.
Larry Burchfield
SEABEES/RVN/67/68/69
DAV

 

[evan price]

Mag or nonmag primers will be fine, start under max and work up if you feel the need to go towards top end loads. The difference between magnum and nonmagnum is not enormous.

 

[faire bien de...!]

d'accord should be no problem

 

[_N4Z_]

2400 is to be ignited with STANDARD PRIMERS ONLY. You use magnum primers and take the chance of whatever may happen from the resulting undesirable pressure spike. This info is readily available in several loading books, Speer #14 is what I have in front of me right now. Alliants literature calls for CCI500's.

These books are the place to go for such info., they are the experts. I am suprised to see so many people here steering you in the wrong direction.

 

[evan price]

No, the factory tested their load with standard primers, not that it is supposed to be used with standard primers. By substituting components from what the factory used to test the load, you are changing the load characteristics. If you use a different CASE you have changed the load.
Components can be interchanged, however- whenever you deviate from what the factory used to test their load, you must start below max and work back up. Reload data is not set in stone- except for max pressure limits.
Whenever you change something- for example, from a Standard to a Magnum primer, or vice versa- always drop down and work back up especially if you are running up at max loads.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Speer 14 says non-magnum primers.
Sierra 5 says magnum primers
Hornady 7 says magnum primers
Nosler 6 says magnum primers
Lyman 49 says magnum primers.

So what does this mean?

My opinion is that you need to work up your load carefully and see what your gun likes. My loads are with Magnum primers in general but sometimes I use normal primers.

I once did a search of my Handloader DVD's on this topic and found that they were about 50/50 split on the topic. I think the current thinking is non-magnum primers though.

Good luck. Welcome to one of the quandries of reloading.

 

[Walkalong]

The books say 2400 does not need mag primers. It does not say not to use them or you will have problems, or I have missed it. 2400, by all accounts, is a pretty well behaved powder.

I agree with most of the posters. Start low, work up, & stop short of max data that was developed with standard primers.

 

[_N4Z_]

From Speer Manual #14, page 892..

Do not use magnum primers with the 2400 or VihtaVuori N110 loads shown here or high pressure will result.

The loads shown there pretty much mirror those shown in the other manuals, with the exception of Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition. Lee loads list slightly hotter than the rest. Yes, Sierra and Hornady manuals call out magnum primers across the board for all of their .357magnum listings. Speer on the other hand breaks down primer call outs to individual loadings by powder and bullet wt. Lee it appears does not mention primers on their caliber loading pages.

To the OP, my thoughts are to go by what the manuals say. If Alliant posts info on their product, and how they tested/used it, then that's how I am going to do it. If I were contemplating something different I would contact them (Alliant) to see what they had to say about it. Might be best to get it from the horses mouth.

 

[tasco 74]

i have used magnum primers in both .38 spl and .357 magnum bullseye loads with no problems.... you just have to not overload bullseye.......

LIFE IS SHORT.....

 

[zxcvbob]

2400 is to be ignited with STANDARD PRIMERS ONLY. You use magnum primers and take the chance of whatever may happen from the resulting undesirable pressure spike. This info is readily available in several loading books, Speer #14 is what I have in front of me right now. Alliants literature calls for CCI500's.

I have in front of me right now, a load book from Alliant. All of the .357 magnum loads (including target wadcutter loads using Bullseye) call for Federal 200 primers.

Don't read too much into that. All it means is they used Federal magnum primers that day when they did their testing.

http://www.thehighroad.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=81593&d=1216513445

 

[_N4Z_]

Don't read too much into that. All it means is they used Federal magnum primers that day when they did their testing.

You see, this is the kind of thing I don't read too much into, because I do not know zxcvbob, and cannot verify his assertions. No offense to him, or anyone else here including myself, but we are all just a random names posting our opinions on a web site. Not seen anybody here yet prove their pedigree's in chemistry, ballistics, or the fact that they were physically there the day Alliant did their testing.
What I do know is as of the 2008 copyright on this manual from Alliant - AP110 8090, standard primers were used for 2400 in 357mag. I also know that Speers newest release thought it worth mentioning that magnum primers should not be used with 2400.

Again for the OP, read/listen to the published data from the recognized sources, and get advice from the people who actually make the powder.

In your case - www.alliantpowder.com

 

[zxcvbob]

No offense taken. That's why we are supposed to work up loads rather than just start right at the top.

Standard primers will work fine with 2400. So will magnum primers (and small rifle primers.) Half the fun is figuring out what combination works *best*, and you even get to define what "best" means.

 

[Walkalong]

From Speer Manual #14, page 892..

Do not use magnum primers with the 2400 or VihtaVuori N110 loads shown here or high pressure will result.

My underline in the quote

& stop short of max data that was developed with standard primers.

Where is the difference here?

Don't use mag primers with the max data shown that used regular primers. That is standard advise with any load.

But, you are right NZ4, I do not have a lab to back that bit of common knowledge up.

I can't fault you for advising cation. Being carefully won't hurt a thing.

 

[Steve C]

2400 only needs standard primers. Magnum primers will increase pressure with 2400 so start at a start load of around 13.0 grs and work up. I've seen pierced and cratered primers at 14.0grs when using mag primers.

 

[Nickjc]

ALL of this is very valuable information....I appreciate everyones time in reading the thread and posting what they know to be true etc.

I have a lee manual here.....are other reloading manuals available online for download in lieu of hardcopy...

Also what are some telltale characteristics you fellas (&ladies if they are reading) look for while working up a load...... from a safety standpoint...It would be foolhardy to go max form the get go.....


I am not looking for max power...or max FPS....but more in the line of accuracy...

 

[zxcvbob]

I have a lee manual here.....are other reloading manuals available online for download in lieu of hardcopy...

I posted a link to an Alliant reloading manual I downloaded a couple of years ago before they pared-down their data to just a few Sierra bullets. I suggest you print pages 16-18. You can also find current reloading data online at all the powder manufacturers (like hodgdon.com and accuratepowder.com and ramshot.com)

It's good to crossreference load data from 2 or 3 sources in case one of them screws up. Lyman's 48th or 49th is a good reloading manual that covers all the powder manufacturers and has a decent amount of cast bullet data too.