ThePomel
Member
I saw the Cowboy Style dies, but was not sure what the difference is with them? How do they differ from other standard dies?
.357/38 die set
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ThePomel
Member
I did look at Lee's site and you are still correct. They did not change. .38 loads both. I got the .38/.357. I don't plan on loading any .357 Maximum (actually never heard of them).
RealGun
Member
Then you would need to disturb the die depth setting every time you changed over. The short plug for 357 is only a few bucks.
This is the old fallacy that, if it isn't within my range of experience, it can't be valid.
Note that the instructions say nothing about how to go from one cartridge to the other. To conform to the instructions you would need the short plug for 357 to keep the die close to the shell holder and get full travel on case activation. Lee provides the alternate length plug for a reason, just as they do for 44 Special/44 Magnum.
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Sunray
Member
Partial to RCBS myself. Mostly due to their warrantee(that's why they're more expensive). The brand of dies really makes no difference. Rimmed cartridges don't need a taper crimp. No need for a crimp at all unless you're loading very hot or out of a lever action.
"...The .357 dies would NOT load .38..." Somebody is confused. Difference is 1/10" of case length and nothing else. A 1/10" thick washer(that comes with RCBS .38/.357 dies. Or did.) with a suitable centre hole, fixes the length issue.
"...The .357 dies would NOT load .38..." Somebody is confused. Difference is 1/10" of case length and nothing else. A 1/10" thick washer(that comes with RCBS .38/.357 dies. Or did.) with a suitable centre hole, fixes the length issue.
Blue68f100
Member
0.135" difference in length. Most dies use to come with the shim. Set up 38's with out the shim then add it for the 357.
RealGun
Member
Redding makes the shim sets, which are not meant for the expander/powder measure. At least for some of my cartridges, the powder measure needs the full ram travel to fully activate, requiring that the die be kept close to the shell holder, switching expander plugs.
SlowFuse
Member
ThePomel, apparently the sizer is slightly larger than the standard set, makes the case mouth slightly larger to begin with to accept a larger diameter lead bullet without having to flare as much.
RealGun
Member
I have all of the RCBS cowboy sets. The sizer yields a larger case, and the expander yields a wider mouth. The seat/crimp doesn't do any damage to the brass or lead bullet, so I think it is .001 larger too.
Hornady on the other hand doesn't feature the larger sizer in their worthless Cowboy set, so everything galls on their bigger expander. I sent it back, and they returned it polished but noted as "in spec". I rechecked the diameter yields and found no improvements.
I still find use for some Hornady dies, sometimes for lack of alternatives. I just ordered a seat/crimp in 41 Mag, supposedly the only one known to produce a crimp on 41 Special.
Hornady on the other hand doesn't feature the larger sizer in their worthless Cowboy set, so everything galls on their bigger expander. I sent it back, and they returned it polished but noted as "in spec". I rechecked the diameter yields and found no improvements.
I still find use for some Hornady dies, sometimes for lack of alternatives. I just ordered a seat/crimp in 41 Mag, supposedly the only one known to produce a crimp on 41 Special.
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Dudedog
Contributing Member
If you go with the Lees spend the few extra $ and get the 4 die set with the FCD. I happen to like it some don't. (some hate it) Never know until you try. I have had good results with all my Lee die sets.
http://www.titanreloading.com/pisto...7-magnum-lee-deluxe-pistol-carbide-4-die-set-
$40.67
Or Midway and lots of other places.
http://www.titanreloading.com/pisto...7-magnum-lee-deluxe-pistol-carbide-4-die-set-
$40.67
Or Midway and lots of other places.
Mauser69
Member
In my opinion this is very misleading information. If you buy a Lee .38Spl or .44Spl die set, you do not need to buy ANYTHING else to load the magnum or maximum calibers with the same dies and a Lee auto powder measure.
Yes, of course you need to readjust the dies when gong from special to magnum, the case lengths are different! You need to adjust the expander die to get the correct bell on the end of the case. You need to adjust the seating/crimping die to get the correct crimp on the end of the case. There are no extra instructions needed to change from one caliber to another - you simply follow the same instructions to properly adjust your dies. Why would you think anything different?
My personal opinion on the 3 vs 4 die sets is that the FCD is pointless with revolver cartridges, and a really bad idea when loading lead bullets. I have the FCD for my auto loading pistol cartridges, but almost never use it. There is no way I would ever touch it for a revolver cartridge, so I would not pay the money for it. Some people claim it is easier to seat and crimp in different steps - I totally disagree with this; to each their own preferences.
TimSr
Member
I agree. 3 die sets for pistols have been standard for decades. It always bothers me when a newbie askes about a die set, and people tell them they have to buy a half dozen other accessories to make them usuable. Don't know how I ever got by with two die rifle, and 3 die pistol sets for all these years.
Personally, I think die mfgs should just sell them separately since nobody uses the whole set any more.
People can do what they want, but a standard set of dies will actually load the round for which they are intended.
ThePomel
Member
I did go with the 4 die Lee set.
RealGun
Member
Mauser69, when I find and share a solution, there always seems to be someone ready to say how wrong I am. Meanwhile, it works.
Redding spacers for .38 Spl/.357 , .44 Spl/.44 Mag, and .062 no crimp spacer.
Link
Set the dies up for the shorter one, and use the spacer for the longer one on the expander and seater/crimper die. Only need the one when using a single stage. I did this for a long time, then finally bought another die set.
I agree that seating/crimping together isn't that big of a deal for many applications.
Link
Link
Set the dies up for the shorter one, and use the spacer for the longer one on the expander and seater/crimper die. Only need the one when using a single stage. I did this for a long time, then finally bought another die set.
I agree that seating/crimping together isn't that big of a deal for many applications.
Link
Mauser69
Member
If you understood how the Lee expander die actually worked to activate a Lee powder measure, you would not make such statements as that.
How close to or far away the die is to the shell holder is completely and totally meaningless. The issue is for the floating plug to reach its maximum height at the top of the ram stroke. The powder measure is activated by the case pushing up on the floating expander plug, so you will always have full activation from any case that is at least as long as the caliber for which the die was made. The only limitation for loading longer cases is if you have enough room to back out the die far enough to accommodate the longer case. And THAT is why you buy the .38Spl dies to load Special, Magnum, and Maximum in the same caliber.
Now if your problems is that you bought the .357Mag dies and you cannot properly load .38Spl with them, well, you are trying to do something that was never intended. That mistake is yours, so don't blame that on Lee or their dies, and don't tell a new reloader they will have to buy more parts unless you clarify that you are telling them how you fixed a stupid buying decision. Furthermore, even if you found a way to work around the proper activation of a powder measure, you still would not be able to properly crimp a shorter case with the .357Mag dies unless you ground off the bottom of the die to make it the same length (or shorter) as a .38Spl crimping die.
I will also note that while most Lee pistol die set instructions are not caliber specific, their web site clearly states that to load .357Mag with the .38Spl dies, you need to "back out the Powder Thru Expander Die, and the Bullet Seating and Crimping Die about 2 turns to compensate for the longer 357 case." Furthermore, they clearly state that you cannot load .38Spl with the .357Mag dies.
RealGun
Member
Advice or correction here seems far more useful when it's not disrespectful.
Mauser69
Member
Agreed.
+1 Roll crimp
Buy a bullet with crimp groove, at slow velocities, about any bullet will do, but at magnum velocities buy hard-cast with a speed limit correct for the anticipated velocity.
Read up on gas checks- many loads benefit from gas checks.
I've shot a lot of .38's / .357 Mags along the way, every one was a lead bullet, not one jacketed bullet.
Buy a bullet with crimp groove, at slow velocities, about any bullet will do, but at magnum velocities buy hard-cast with a speed limit correct for the anticipated velocity.
Read up on gas checks- many loads benefit from gas checks.
I've shot a lot of .38's / .357 Mags along the way, every one was a lead bullet, not one jacketed bullet.
JT-AR-MG42
Member
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- Mar 26, 2010
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- 871
I'm with you RealGun,
Never had too much luck with Hornady dies.
Won't comment on Lee dies. Their weight is handy for fishing the jetty though.
You mentioned needing a different seater for the .41 Spec.
When I needed to crimp my .44 Colt loads, I put a spare seat/roll crimp .44 Mag.
die in a chop saw (after removing seater and stuffing wet paper towels in it).
I cut it down about 3/4", cleaned up the start on the threads, and put a
new bevel on the die mouth with a tapered stone bit in a drill.
Cheaper than ordering it anyway, the common calibers (especially with steel sizers) can usually
be found at pretty reasonable prices.
JT
Never had too much luck with Hornady dies.
Won't comment on Lee dies. Their weight is handy for fishing the jetty though.
You mentioned needing a different seater for the .41 Spec.
When I needed to crimp my .44 Colt loads, I put a spare seat/roll crimp .44 Mag.
die in a chop saw (after removing seater and stuffing wet paper towels in it).
I cut it down about 3/4", cleaned up the start on the threads, and put a
new bevel on the die mouth with a tapered stone bit in a drill.
Cheaper than ordering it anyway, the common calibers (especially with steel sizers) can usually
be found at pretty reasonable prices.
JT
TwoEyedJack
Member
I started reloading pistol rounds on a rock chucker with Lee dies. I really like the autodisk powder measure. Then I upgraded to a Dillon 550. The Lee dies are kind of short, so I ended up having to put the locking ring underneath the Dillon die holder to make it work. I use Lee carbide dies and the autodisk powder measure to load 9MM, .357, .45 ACP, and .41 mag.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
WHY try to save a few bucks with a steel sizer. Yes they work, yes they have been used for years but for a few dollars why?
I have enough fun lubing rifle cases, no desire to lube 9mm/.357/.45.
Bama Drifter
Member
@ risk of beating dead horse...
Hey OP, glad you made the Lee carbide purchase.
I've had fantastic success w/ above dies; the factory crimp die is great. I crimp so tight that it is nearly impossible to recover components using a bullet puller! An added bonus (that progressive press guys may not care for) is the Lee dipper. One and a half scoops of Unique makes for a pleasant target load.
Now for speed, get a Lee Perfect Powder measure to finish your kit. It'll crunch through 800-X like a kid eating Frosted Flakes.
Hey OP, glad you made the Lee carbide purchase.
I've had fantastic success w/ above dies; the factory crimp die is great. I crimp so tight that it is nearly impossible to recover components using a bullet puller! An added bonus (that progressive press guys may not care for) is the Lee dipper. One and a half scoops of Unique makes for a pleasant target load.
Now for speed, get a Lee Perfect Powder measure to finish your kit. It'll crunch through 800-X like a kid eating Frosted Flakes.
RealGun
Member
Why would one claim bragging rights for that? Why wouldn't a modest roll crimp without crushing the bullet be enough? I learned from trying to pull plated DEWC roll crimped over the end that much of the retention comes from the bearing surface of the bullet (although additionally galling in the case of plated), which supposedly can be somewhat disturbed by over crimping.
ThePomel
Member
Thanks, I have an RCBS Uniflow and an RCBS ChargeMaster Powder Scale and Dispenser Combo. I think that should do the trickHey OP, glad you made the Lee carbide purchase.
I've had fantastic success w/ above dies; the factory crimp die is great. I crimp so tight that it is nearly impossible to recover components using a bullet puller! An added bonus (that progressive press guys may not care for) is the Lee dipper. One and a half scoops of Unique makes for a pleasant target load.
Now for speed, get a Lee Perfect Powder measure to finish your kit. It'll crunch through 800-X like a kid eating Frosted Flakes.
I plan on using a light roll crimp with the seating die while seating. I don't think I'll use the FCD unless I load HOT .357s.- Status
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