357 and 2400...
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Without knowing the bullet weight we can't tell much about your load. Assuming you are loading 158gr bullets, 13.1grs of 2400 is a good moderate load for lead bullets and a start load for jacketed bullets. With a 158gr jacketed bullet 14.0gr and using a standard primer will duplicate the 1,240 to 1,250 fps typical factory load from a 4" barrel revolver.
Standard primers are recommended by Speer for 2400 in the .357 mag as magnum primers will generate high pressure with smaller amounts of 2400. Maximum load of 2400 with a jacketed 158gr bullets is 14.8gr according to the online Alliant manual.
Standard primers are recommended by Speer for 2400 in the .357 mag as magnum primers will generate high pressure with smaller amounts of 2400. Maximum load of 2400 with a jacketed 158gr bullets is 14.8gr according to the online Alliant manual.
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area51
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Thanks for the info. I used Extreme 158 rn plated. Very "clean" load with minimal amount of time spent on cleaning...
Sunray
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No mention of magnum primers for 2400 on Alliant's site. Magnum primers have nothing whatever to do with the cartridge. They're about the powder only.
No 2400 given for cast bullets on their site either. There is in my old Lyman book. 11.0 to 15.0 of 2400 for a cast 158 with a gas check. Plated bullets don't need gas checks, of course. Your load shouldn't bother any revolver in decent condition. 19's don't like a steady diet of jacketed hot loads. Plated bullets aren't jacketed.
No 2400 given for cast bullets on their site either. There is in my old Lyman book. 11.0 to 15.0 of 2400 for a cast 158 with a gas check. Plated bullets don't need gas checks, of course. Your load shouldn't bother any revolver in decent condition. 19's don't like a steady diet of jacketed hot loads. Plated bullets aren't jacketed.
As long as your load is a safe 357 magnum loads, the Blackhawk and S&W Model 28 should digest them without issue.
The S&W Model 19 does like a steady diet of full powder loads. They have a reputation of cracking the forcing cone on the barrel. Mine did.
13.0 Grs of 2400 and a 158 Gr plated bullet is unlikely to damage any sound .357, K frame or otherwise.
The old hot 125s, and a lot of them, are what caused the damage to forcing cones.
I have shot the same 13.0 Grs with the X-Treme 158 gr SWC, and it's a nice easy load to shoot. I haven't tried 14.0 Grs with a 158 Gr plated bullet.
The old hot 125s, and a lot of them, are what caused the damage to forcing cones.
I have shot the same 13.0 Grs with the X-Treme 158 gr SWC, and it's a nice easy load to shoot. I haven't tried 14.0 Grs with a 158 Gr plated bullet.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I agree, 13.0gr of 2400 under a X-Treme 158 gr SWC will do no damage to any .357 Magnum revolver in good operation condition.
The M28 is an extremely strong N frame S&W and there isn't much on the planet that could damage it. Like said above, the M19 will be just fine with the load you are making. It was the older hot 125gr jacketed loads which were stressing the forcing cones of the K frames.
OK, where are the pictures of these classic revolvers??? Give-um-up...
The M28 is an extremely strong N frame S&W and there isn't much on the planet that could damage it. Like said above, the M19 will be just fine with the load you are making. It was the older hot 125gr jacketed loads which were stressing the forcing cones of the K frames.
OK, where are the pictures of these classic revolvers??? Give-um-up...
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area51
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I agree, 13.0gr of 2400 under a X-Treme 158 gr SWC will do no damage to any .357 Magnum revolver in good operation condition.
OK, where are the pictures of these classic revolvers??? Give-um-up...
My BH cam apart today after 40 rounds of 13.5 of 2400 with the 158 swc plated.... Think the load was too much for her
Nothing was damaged, I took out the cylinder. Just changed the base pin latch body, pin and spring since the base pin assembly was coming out from time to time. time to go with 7 grains of unique ?
Please say it ain;t so... I really like 2400 !
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is that a belt mountain base pin?
is the cross latch cut-out peened on one end?
is your cross latch spring stock or extra heavy (brownells sells a heavy spring for this afliction).
this is a common problem with blackhawks in magnum calibers (ask me how i know).
the problem is caused by heavy recoil and a cross latch not quite seated in the pin recess.
murf
is the cross latch cut-out peened on one end?
is your cross latch spring stock or extra heavy (brownells sells a heavy spring for this afliction).
this is a common problem with blackhawks in magnum calibers (ask me how i know).
the problem is caused by heavy recoil and a cross latch not quite seated in the pin recess.
murf
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area51
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Nope.. everything is stock. Ruger was kind enough to ship me the base pin latch body and spring and it did not solve my problem...
Should I go the Belt Mountain route and get their Base Pin Latch and Pin ? Which base pin you like better ? they have several listed...
Should I go the Belt Mountain route and get their Base Pin Latch and Pin ? Which base pin you like better ? they have several listed...
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
Area51,
Ruger SA revolvers are probably tougher than most revolvers available form any maker. It was not your 13.5gr load of 2400 that made the pin come loose. Seriously, 13.5gr of 2400 under a 158gr plated bullet is not a hot load at all. Even though commercial .357 Magnum ammo available today is anemic it probably develops more pressure than your load. A charge of 7.0gr Unique might be just as hot considering Alliant lists a Max charge of 6.0gr Unique under a 158gr LSWC bullet.
Alliant lists a Max charge of 14.8gr 2400 under a 158gr Speer GDHP bullet which would make the starting charge weight 13.3gr 2400. Since plated bullets can be safely loaded to middle jacketed powder weights that would put the Max charge for your plated bullet @14.0gr, well below your charge of 13.5gr. It was not the ammo you built, it only uncovered a problem with the revolver.
When I load .357 Magnum ammo with 2400 I use a 158gr LSWC bullet and my light loads are 14.0gr and the heavier loads are made with a charge of 14.5gr 2400. Your charge of 13.5gr is actually on the light side.
Ruger SA revolvers are probably tougher than most revolvers available form any maker. It was not your 13.5gr load of 2400 that made the pin come loose. Seriously, 13.5gr of 2400 under a 158gr plated bullet is not a hot load at all. Even though commercial .357 Magnum ammo available today is anemic it probably develops more pressure than your load. A charge of 7.0gr Unique might be just as hot considering Alliant lists a Max charge of 6.0gr Unique under a 158gr LSWC bullet.
Alliant lists a Max charge of 14.8gr 2400 under a 158gr Speer GDHP bullet which would make the starting charge weight 13.3gr 2400. Since plated bullets can be safely loaded to middle jacketed powder weights that would put the Max charge for your plated bullet @14.0gr, well below your charge of 13.5gr. It was not the ammo you built, it only uncovered a problem with the revolver.
When I load .357 Magnum ammo with 2400 I use a 158gr LSWC bullet and my light loads are 14.0gr and the heavier loads are made with a charge of 14.5gr 2400. Your charge of 13.5gr is actually on the light side.
area51,
brownells sells an extra power base pin latch kit for ruger single action revolvers. i have one in my 357 magnum and one in my 44 magnum.
that said, the base pin cutout on the 357 was damaged by the latch not being fully seated in the frame. i had to also replace the pin to fix the problem.
anyway, i have belt mountain base pins in all my ruger single action revolvers. that is my choice and not necessary to cure this problem.
you will probably need a new pin and may also need to check the frame of the pistol for burrs left in the base pin hole and the cross latch hole (my 357 had burrs that were keeping the latch from fully seating).
i'd check the frame holes for burrs before buying a new pin. but, if the pin is damaged you might as well get a new one.
murf
p.s. that sure looks like a belt mountain pin in your photos.
brownells sells an extra power base pin latch kit for ruger single action revolvers. i have one in my 357 magnum and one in my 44 magnum.
that said, the base pin cutout on the 357 was damaged by the latch not being fully seated in the frame. i had to also replace the pin to fix the problem.
anyway, i have belt mountain base pins in all my ruger single action revolvers. that is my choice and not necessary to cure this problem.
you will probably need a new pin and may also need to check the frame of the pistol for burrs left in the base pin hole and the cross latch hole (my 357 had burrs that were keeping the latch from fully seating).
i'd check the frame holes for burrs before buying a new pin. but, if the pin is damaged you might as well get a new one.
murf
p.s. that sure looks like a belt mountain pin in your photos.
the base pin latch cut-out on a stock pin is all the way around the circumference of the pin. the belt mountain pin cut-out is just far enough around to accept the latch nut. the diameter of the belt mountain pin is larger than stock and fits tighter in the frame.
with the belt mountain pin, care must be taken to rotate the pin in the frame so the latch can enter and be fully seated in the latch pin frame hole. the test is to try and pull the pin back out of the frame. if it comes out, push it back in and rotate the pin while pushing on the latch. the latch should seat further in when the pin is rotated in the correct position.
murf
with the belt mountain pin, care must be taken to rotate the pin in the frame so the latch can enter and be fully seated in the latch pin frame hole. the test is to try and pull the pin back out of the frame. if it comes out, push it back in and rotate the pin while pushing on the latch. the latch should seat further in when the pin is rotated in the correct position.
murf
The standard load in my .357s is a 160 grain gas check (home cast) swc over 12.5 grains of 2400. The load is accurate, gives 1150fps and seems mild in my S&W M19. For the "N" frames I go up to 15 grains of 2400. Velocity is around 1450fps and recoil is, well, noticeable. The Python is not fed the "N" frame load but rather the 12.5 grain load; but with its 6" barrel gives slightly over 1200fps. With jacketed 158 grain HPs, 15 grains of 2400 gives 1280fps out of a 6" barrel and is for the heavy frames exclusively.
gamestalker
member
I have long felt that the K frame has adopted an undeserved reputation of being prone to FC failure. These concerns are some what misplaced and certainly misunderstood. First of all, S&W would not have continued to produce this design for as many decades as they did, if the design was incapable of sustaining the industry maximum for the .357 mag.. They went to some extremes to get to the bottom of the issue, and what they discovered was that, build up in the FC was the primary cause of excessive pressure induced damage to the FC. One particular misconception by many who shoot lead, is that after shooting lead through a firearm, one can just run some jacketed bullets through to clean most of the lead out. This is a big no, no, this only amplifies the risk, and not only with K frame revolvers. It doesn't take much build up to excessively raise pressures to damage it. Think of those deposits as an obstruction, cause that's exactly what they become.
I have shot thousands of full tilt jacketed 296 reloads, and almost exclusively through both of my 66's, with no sign what so ever of an impending issue. And although I don't shoot large quantities of 110 and 125 gr. jacketed 296 reloads through them, I have indeed put a few hundred through each of them. And as I stated above, the most important factor in avoiding FC damage, is making certain that the FC is kept free of any deposits, be it carbon, copper, or lead. Deposit build up is the primary cause of damaging pressures that induce FC damage in the "K" frame.
GS
I have shot thousands of full tilt jacketed 296 reloads, and almost exclusively through both of my 66's, with no sign what so ever of an impending issue. And although I don't shoot large quantities of 110 and 125 gr. jacketed 296 reloads through them, I have indeed put a few hundred through each of them. And as I stated above, the most important factor in avoiding FC damage, is making certain that the FC is kept free of any deposits, be it carbon, copper, or lead. Deposit build up is the primary cause of damaging pressures that induce FC damage in the "K" frame.
GS
LAGS
Member
I have been using 2400 for many years in the .357's and is my favorite powder for those guns , rifle included.
I am actually looking for another pound or two of 2400 as we speak for that reason.
It is also a favorite for Cast Bullet Rifle loads.
I am shooting 14.0 in my .357's with a 158 gr JHP and 158 gr Gas Check Lead bullet cast out of Linotype Lead.
It is a Stout load, but not over pressured.
I am actually looking for another pound or two of 2400 as we speak for that reason.
It is also a favorite for Cast Bullet Rifle loads.
I am shooting 14.0 in my .357's with a 158 gr JHP and 158 gr Gas Check Lead bullet cast out of Linotype Lead.
It is a Stout load, but not over pressured.
while you are waiting for the spring, check the cross latch and make sure it fully seats into the frame while the base pin is in the frame. if the latch doesn't bottom out in the frame, the spring won't fix the problem. there may be a burr down in that hole that is preventing the latch from bottoming out. if you are good with a small round file you can get it out of there.
luck,
murf
luck,
murf
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ljnowell
Member
14.5gr of 2400 has been a classic load with a 158gr bullet for a very long time in 357 mag.
I use 13.5 grains 2400 with cast, I probably could step it up with jacketed, but it shoots outstandingly with either.
Smith & Wesson M27-2
158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F
Ave Vel = 1273
Std Dev = 44.03
ES = 176.7
High = 1372
Low = 1195
N = 30
158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP
5-Aug-06 T = 103 °F
Ave Vel = 1196
Std Dev = 26.58
ES = 87.17
High = 1244
Low = 1157
N = 10
Accurate, easy extraction.
Smith & Wesson M27-2
158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F
Ave Vel = 1273
Std Dev = 44.03
ES = 176.7
High = 1372
Low = 1195
N = 30
158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP
5-Aug-06 T = 103 °F
Ave Vel = 1196
Std Dev = 26.58
ES = 87.17
High = 1244
Low = 1157
N = 10
Accurate, easy extraction.
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