357 Magnum 140gr XTP w/2400

[Stormin.40]

I have loaded some test rounds up to the Hornady max of 15.5gr of 2400 with their 140gr XTP bullet. My Lyman manual used the Speer 140gr bullet but list a max of 16.5gr of 2400. Seems like a lot but I would like to push the 140gr XTP a little faster than 1250fps which is what I estimate I will get out of a 4" barrel with 15.5gr 2400.

Anyone use that much 2400 in 357 magnum with a 140gr HP bullet? These are being loaded for a S&W 586 revolver.

 

[buck460XVR]

For comparison, Speer shows a max of 15.1 for the same 140 gr bullet.

 

[Rule3]

You can't estimate what velocity you will get, perhaps guesstimate

Hornaday shows a charge of 2400 from 11.9 to a max of 15.5 with several in between

They used an 8" Colt Python and the max was 1350 fps.

 

[Stormin.40]

I also have the Speer manual and say the 15.1gr max, I think their OAL is a little shorter as well, I am seating to 1.59 as per Hornady manual. I am leaning toward working up to 15.9gr 2400 this should get me close to 1300fps from a 4" barrel, as Rule3 said that is my best guesstimate. It is very cold here in WI so I am not using the chrony, I will test at a local indoor range and try and get a feel for pressure based on the extraction and possible primer appearance. This spring I will check the speed of whichever load my gun seems to like.

Any others with experience pushing the 140gr HP with over 16gr 2400 per the Third Edition Lyman manual?

 

[rcmodel]

I have loaded that bullet with 14.5 2400 for years for use in Model 19 & 66 K-Frames.

I like that load a lot.

Getting the last FPS possible out of it is unimportant to me.

rc

 

[buck460XVR]

Getting the last FPS possible out of it is unimportant to me.

rc

^^^ I'm with RC. Too many folks get hung up on velocity. Most of my most accurate loads in .357, 44 and .460 are below max loads and all have excellent terminal performance at those velocities. Lyman tends to be a tad hot in .357 load recipes from my experience. Alliant, distributor of 2400 also shows a max of 15.1 in their manual. OAL in a revolver is dependent on where the cannelure is. Having a shorter OAL than another bullet does not necessarily mean the bullet is seated deeper and thus less case capacity. One needs to have both bullets there to compare how much bullet is behind the cannelure.

 

[CosmicCoder]

Any others with experience pushing the 140gr HP with over 16gr 2400 per the Third Edition Lyman manual?

After a long dearth of 2400 [I switched to H110] I'm back to 2400 now as it has become available again in my area of WY. My last test load in mid Nov 2013 of 15.8gr of 2400, WSPM primer,140gr XTP, COL of 1.581", firm roll crimp chronographed at 1327fps from my 4" 686+. I have another test load ready to go using 16.3gr of 2400 but the weather has not been cooperating.

 

[Stormin.40]

Thanks for the first hand experience CosmicCoder. I realize all guns are different but if you were seeing 1327fps at 15.8gr, I would expect 15.5gr is approaching 1300fps. I will make up a few "hotter" rounds and as long as I don't see any high pressure signs on the way up the ladder I will light them off as well and see what accuracy looks like.

I respect what both RC and Buck are saying, I am generally not a velocity chaser, and would rather have accuracy. In this case I believe I am within published load data and would like to push the lighter 140gr XTP bullet faster than its slightly bigger brother the 158gr XTP. I only asked the question because 16.5gr does seem high compared to the 15.1 and 15.5 that my other sources show.

 

[gamestalker]

My Hornady data shows 10.1 -14.0 grs. with the 140 gr. XTP tested in a S&W M27 8-3/8" barrel.

GS

 

[buck460XVR]

I respect what both RC and Buck are saying, I am generally not a velocity chaser, and would rather have accuracy. In this case I believe I am within published load data and would like to push the lighter 140gr XTP bullet faster than its slightly bigger brother the 158gr XTP. I only asked the question because 16.5gr does seem high compared to the 15.1 and 15.5 that my other sources show.

As I said, IMHO, Lyman is a tad hotter than Hornady and Speer manuals in .357. Iffin you look at their data for the same bullet using H110, Lyman also lists about a grain more for max and it's start load is .1 gr above max in Speer. This is one reason most of us use more than one reference when developing new loads. Is the Lyman data safe? Odds are it is if you compare it to Hodgdon's manual. BTW....Hodgdon claims they can make a 140 XTP run 1597fps with a start load of H110/W296 and 1762fps with a max load. I've always gotten better velocities with H110/W296 than with 2400. Accuracy has always been great too. So if faster is what you want, you might want to try something else. If you want to stick with Alliant powders their new 300MP is supposed to be identical to H110/W296 and will give you better velocities than 2400.

 

[Rule3]

I just don't get it sometimes? (not to the OP alone but this comes up a lot)If the company that makes the bullet also tested the bullet with the same powder why not just use their data.? They also give several test loads and FPS not just low and high.

Until your drag the chronograph out and see what they do in you gun you will never know.
Hornady has been around for a loooong time, They test their products and even make reloading stuff

 

[moxie]

I load that Hornady 140XTP JHP bullet with 17.2 grs. 2400. OAL is 1.580". CCI 550 magnum primer.

Out of my Ruger Security Six 4" barrel, I clock it at 1485 fps average.

Nice hot load. Nothing untoward. This load comes from the Speer #11 book and is a bit UNDER max. I've used it for years and it's safe and effective for me. And yes I'm aware that it's a Hornady bullet not a Speer bullet. And yes I'm aware that magnum primers have fallen from grace but I still use them with some hot loads, especially, as in this case, when the original data calls for them. And when they're just...time tested.

 

[Walkalong]

Speer # 13 stops at 15.1 Grs of 2400 with a 140 Gr bullet for 1298 FPS from a 6" Model 19.

 

[Stormin.40]

I don't believe I am taking the 357 to new heights, 16gr and 1300fps based on at least one manual is under max. Hornady makes great products and I like their data, they use a real gun not a 10" test barrel, I just wanted some input from others experience as it seems the 357 can do more. I am of the opinion that if you want more than a gun/caliber can give you should get a bigger gun/caliber, I however believe I am trying to get a 357 to do what it was designed to do.

I appreciate the information provjded, RC was happy with 14.5gr only .2gr above my starting point. Buck recommended H110 and I appreciate it as well, I would like to try that with 140gr and 158gr jacketed bullets. It seems moxie and cosmicoder have taken the 140XTP beyond where I planned to go and that is reassuring, I will however still proceed slowly and with caution.

Thanks for the information THR did not disappoint.

 

[CosmicCoder]

Stormin.40:

I think you are taking a prudent approach to your load development. Regarding H110, I'd like to add some info about my experience with this powder and .357 Mag loads.

When I could not find 2400 any more I decided to switch to an alternate powder. H110 [W296 is a near clone] was available and highly touted so I decided to give it a try. It does not have as broad a load range as 2400 so you are limited as to how far you can download with it - below a certain point [load density / pressure range] it will not burn efficiently - and Hodgdon warns against this. You will need to use magnum primers to get good ignition and complete combustion. A firm roll crimp helps to build initial pressure and efficient burn. Velocities plateau sharply at the upper end as a function of powder charge. Performance consistency is quite dependent upon load density [efficient combustion] so the best consistency occurs at the upper end of the load curve.

My best loads using H110 for 140gr and 158gr XTP bullets for 5 shot strings from my S&W 686+ 4" are as follows:

140gr XTP:

18.5gr H110, WSPM primer, S&B cases trimmed to 1.278", COL of 1.580", firm roll crimp, MV of 1326fps, ES of 29fps, SD of 13.2fps​

158gr XTP:

16.5gr H110, WSPM primer, S&B cases trimmed to 1.278", COL of 1.580", firm roll crimp, MV of 1192fps, ES of 29fps, SD of 12.3fps​

 

[buck460XVR]

I don't believe I am taking the 357 to new heights, 16gr and 1300fps based on at least one manual is under max. Hornady makes great products and I like their data, they use a real gun not a 10" test barrel, I just wanted some input from others experience as it seems the 357 can do more.

I don't think you're taking the .357 to new heights either and your approach to this indicates you wish to error on the safe side. While Hodgdon and Lyman give pressure specs for their recipes, Speer and Hornady do not. Sometimes I wonder if this is because Lyman and Hodgdon are loading for velocity and Speer and Hornady are loading for accuracy. IOWs, once Speer and Hornady see a decrease in accuracy with increases in powder charge, they stop, whereas Hodgdon and Lyman continue till they get close to max SAAMI specs...I dunno. Personally, I always take the first approach as accuracy is my primary concern.

I know that during these times of component shortages, getting specific bullets to fit published loads can be frustrating. But substitution of components is safe as long as one has a safe approach to it such as yours. When substituting bullets in revolver rounds, I found that sometimes different bullets have little or no effect. I have never used the 140s from either Hornady or Speer, but have used plenty of both's 158s. Distance from cannelure to base of bullets of Hornady's XTP-HPs and Speer's JHP is exactly the same so case capacity is the same when seated to the cannelure. Performance with similar powder charge is almost exactly the same...IOWs, I load them both the same and get similar accuracy performance. Don't have 140s to compare, maybe someone else does.


As for H110/W296(exact same powder, different label on bottle) having narrow parameters, yes this is true. But within those parameters it works very well, especially in .357 mag.

 

[Stormin.40]

Just finished at the range, there were no signs of pressure with any of the loads tested 14.3-15.5gr of A2400 behind a 140gr XTP. I can't use a rest indoors and I am not that great of a shot off hand so I limited myself to 10 yards.

The 14.7gr may have been the most accurate if I hadn't pulled the last three shots, the first three were all touching, the 15.5gr load seemed to be the best overall. Again without a rest I cannot say for certain which was more accurate.

 

[gamestalker]

If your truly going for full house magnum loads, H110/296 is the top dog for this. Yes, it doesn't have the best table range to work with, but in all honesty it simply doesn't need much table range. It is one of the few powders that IMO, that could be safely loaded using a single published charge. Working it up or down within it's table is a waste of time, and good powder, IMHO. It's an exclusive full house magnum powder, and nothing else type powder.

As for my experience with it (H110/296), I'm averaging around 1300 fps with 140 gr XTP's from a 2-1/2" barrel. 4" barrel has delivered a bit more velocity, 1350's fps or so. These loads are maximum published.

I've used 2400 and have absolutely no problem or complaints about it, but because of my full house reloading style/preference, I always go with H110/296. 2400 is a far more versatile powder in regard to working charges up or down.

GS