357 and titegroup

[Waterboy3313]

I've done several work ups for 357 with titegroup and 158 gr Hornady XTP bullets. I just can't settle on what seems to work best. I have a 38 special LSWC load with titegroup that seems to work pretty well between my two .357 pistols.

Anyone loading 357 with titegroup and 158 gr lead or jacketed bullets care to post what they prefer?

I'm just out for general plinking shooting paper targets. Not trying to push anything over the edge or anything like that.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I’ve loaded a few 148 gr and 158 gr xtp bullets with Titegroup. I decided to go right for the center of Hodgdon’s data for both, and they gave good results with decent accuracy. For general plinking, I have a few other powders I use with coated cast, and I load toward the lighter end.

 

[Waterboy3313]

I have usually had decent results using Hodgdon data in the mid to lower range with 38 special with another revolver as well as 45acp. I am also using a new revolver with adjustable sights and starting to question the adjustment from the factory.

I ordered a bore sight lazer and I'm hoping it will be here tomorrow. I wouldn't bet my life on a bore site but it should help to determine if the factory is close or not.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Multiplying your accurate 38 special load by 110% will give you an accurate load in 357 if you use the same bullet.
You're combining a hunting/self defense bullet and powder that is designed to give target practice velocities.
Personally, I would put something at least as slow as Universal behind jacketed bullets in 357.

 

[kcofohio]

For some soft shooters out of a Trooper, 4" barrel, I used 5.0 gr. of Titegroup with a MBC 158 gr. SWC.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I have usually had decent results using Hodgdon data in the mid to lower range with 38 special with another revolver as well as 45acp. I am also using a new revolver with adjustable sights and starting to question the adjustment from the factory.

I ordered a bore sight lazer and I'm hoping it will be here tomorrow. I wouldn't bet my life on a bore site but it should help to determine if the factory is close or not.

Is it your windage or elevation that's giving you issues? Bullet weight, powder, and charge can definitely impact your elevation, and sometimes (to a lesser extent) windage. How does your gun shoot with factory ammo?

 

[sequins]

Bullet Weight significantly affects vertical spread. I shoot 158gn and 180gn bullets in my GP100 and the 180s come in about 8" higher at 25', pretty high at 10' too.

If you shoot from a rest at a fairly close distance like 10-15' you'll get a good idea if your sights are in a good place. Unless I'm shooting like the devil I rarely try to make adjustments based on off-hand groups though.

 

[DanK3Pos]

Bullet Weight significantly affects vertical spread. I shoot 158gn and 180gn bullets in my GP100 and the 180s come in about 8" higher at 25', pretty high at 10' too.

If you shoot from a rest at a fairly close distance like 10-15' you'll get a good idea if your sights are in a good place. Unless I'm shooting like the devil I rarely try to make adjustments based on off-hand groups though.

Any idea why the 180's would be so much higher?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Any idea why the 180's would be so much higher?

From what I understand, the bigger bullet is slower and stays in the barrel a tad bit longer. During this time, a pistol or revolver will rotate the muzzle slightly upward due to recoil, so the heavier bullet will leave the barrel at a slightly higher angle than the lighter bullet. The difference varies from person to person depending on how they manage the recoil of the gun. Sometimes due to the way a pistol or revolver is held, or due to the physiology of the shooters hands, it may also cause a little lateral deviation as well because it recoils upward at a slight left/right angle.

If it were possible to prevent the muzzle flip of a pistol or revolver, the bigger bullet would actually strike a little lower than the lighter one, but its nearly impossible to prevent the barrel from rising.

 

[sequins]

Yes, the rifling sends the bullet at a slight lateral drift depending on the direction of the twist and the dwell time causes vertical drift. I shoot light loads so my dwell time is longer thus higher impact.

You can adjust your sights to compensate for this very effectively as the shift is pretty consistent, but switching back and forth can be tedious if you're only shooting off hand and trying to dial sights that way. Session to session my off hand isnt terribly consistent so you can imagine neither would any adjustments.

 

[Waterboy3313]

I am planning on going shooting this coming weekend. I never shoot from a rest but I have one and might take it with me. If I can figure out if it's me, sights or handloads I can adjust from there. The front and rear sights are black and I was shooting early in the morning when it was overcast. Maybe my eyes weren't seeing what I thought. I did paint the front sight and it really made a huge difference while just looking down the sights. Also after painting the front sight when the light was much better I noticed how how much light I could see on both sides of the front sight. The more I'm thinking about this I am thinking maybe it was just not the right conditions to be trying a new pistol I'm not familiar with yet.

 

[frankmako]

my nra lever action pistol cartridge silhouette match load for a marlin 1894cb is 6.5 grs of titegroup with the 158 gr hp zero bullet. this load is one hole group at 40, 50 and 75 meters. opens to 1/4 inch at 100 meters. runs at 1,296 fps with mag primers. with standard primers about 20 fps slower.

 

[evan price]

My recipes are 158 lead swc, roll crimped in the crimp groove.

38 spl 3.5gr titegroup- this is a fairly light "cowboy" load that hits maybe 700fps in a 4" barrel.

357 mag 5.0gr titegroup- this is a good plinking load about 1000fps in a 4" barrel. Not a full magnum load.

I worked up to 6.0gr titegroup but got sticky extraction in revolvers.

 

[Waterboy3313]

38 spl 3.5gr titegroup- this is a fairly light "cowboy" load that hits maybe 700fps in a 4" barrel.

That was the load I was using in my snub nose for punching paper at 7 yards. It is decent for what I was doing with it.

I ordered some starline 357 brass and just got a Ruger GP 100 with a 6" barrel. I'm just trying to come up with something fun to shoot and be as accurate as possible.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

That was the load I was using in my snub nose for punching paper at 7 yards. It is decent for what I was doing with it.

I ordered some starline 357 brass and just got a Ruger GP 100 with a 6" barrel. I'm just trying to come up with something fun to shoot and be as accurate as possible.

I have a 4” Smith & Wesson Model 19(3) that I shoot coated cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. and Trail Boss through. I can’t say for all guns, but my 125 and 158 gr bullets with max or close to max loads are dead on accurate in mine, and very mild; about like .38 special. You may want something a little stouter, but if you want to shoot all day, give it a try.

 

[Waterboy3313]

Funny thing you mentioned Missouri Bullet. I was browsing their site the other day and curious about the coated bullets.

For my 1911 in 45acp I shoot Berry's plated round nose 230 gr with 4.5 gr titegroup and it has been a very fun accurate round to shoot. I was pondering my next bullet order in trying some of the coated cast bullets from Missouri.

I don't really care about making a big noise and a wild recoil. I go out 1-4 times a month depending on weather and available time to shoot. I don't load up to shoot as fast as I can or see how many rounds I can shoot in a certain time. When I'm by myself I take my time and try to shoot the best I can and try to learn what I need to improve on to get better. The reloading part of this is new to me and same thing applies. I'm trying to learn as I go and get better. For me it's two hobbies in one that I enjoy doing and learning.

 

[Waterboy3313]

When I got home today I played with my bore sighting lazer. From what I saw is the sights were actually really low for the distance I was shooting last weekend. Or should I say the bullets were hitting quite low from the point of aim. I made a quick adjustment to get me where I think I should be. Time will tell next trip out.

 

[Blue68f100]

On a revolver it's not unusual for a laser to indicated 6" low at 25 yrds. The recoil from the bullet raises the nose of the barrel before the bullet exits, compensating for the difference.

 

[Waterboy3313]

Definitely planning a trip to the range this weekend. I have changed sight adjustment as well as done another large workup on 38 special as well as 357 with 2 different bullets. Hopefully a little more range time with decent weather and more sun light will allow me to get this thing figured out.

 

[Eddietruett]

If you are just punching paper, I don't see spending the money for jacketed bullets. For probably half the price or less you can shoot coated bullets from Missouri or numerous other companies and get equal accuracy and if you feel the need to jack up the velocity, you can load Coated Lead as hot as Jacketed and will actually give you a little more velocity due to the reduced friction. Unless I'm loading for deer hunting, almost all of my bullets these days are Hytek Coated. Clean and Accurate as jacketed and much cheaper.

 

[DanK3Pos]

I did paint the front sight and it really made a huge difference while just looking down the sights.

On a side note, here's a really neat video by Midway about how to install an orange insert in the front blade.
Also, probably beyond my gunsmithing skills.

 

[Waterboy3313]

If you are just punching paper, I don't see spending the money for jacketed bullets. For probably half the price or less you can shoot coated bullets from Missouri or numerous other companies and get equal accuracy and if you feel the need to jack up the velocity, you can load Coated Lead as hot as Jacketed and will actually give you a little more velocity due to the reduced friction. Unless I'm loading for deer hunting, almost all of my bullets these days are Hytek Coated. Clean and Accurate as jacketed and much cheaper.

Usually I load cast lead swc for 38 special and plated for 45 acp and 9mm. I bought the jacketed 38/357 bullets. Thinking about trying the coated bullets in 45 next. The only reason I bought the jacketed 38/357 is because RMR was selling them dirt cheap in a mixed pulled batch. I figured it was the best time to give them a try. I also figured since it was supposed to be mixed that it might be kind of nice to see what else was tossed in the bag as more or less an experiment. I ordered 500 bullets 470 were 158gr and 30 were 124/125 gr. For the price I figured I did pretty good and for my use I will be trying something else or sticking with the swc lead.

 

[Waterboy3313]

On a side note, here's a really neat video by Midway about how to install an orange insert in the front blade.

That's a good video. My GP 100 has several different front and rear sights available pretty cheap. From what I've read they are supposed to be pretty easy to change out. I could probably pull off a modification like that and if it was a fixed sight I probably wouldn't take the chance. I've been thinking about trying the fiberoptic front sight if the paint doesn't seem to work out. I used red single stage paint leftover from a hot rod project and applied it very carefully using a tooth pick just on the serrations. It looks pretty good and can probably be easily removed.