38 spl and Titegroup

[DanTheFarmer]

Hi All,

I had a fun range day on the weekend and am learning things about my new Ruger GP100 6" barrel revolver.

158 gr LSWC and 3.3 gr Bullseye is a no-recoil, accurate, dirty load. Shooting indoors I could see ejecta from the barrel/cylinder gap and from the muzzle. I thought this was SMOKELESS powder. 158 gr LSWC and 3.3 of 700X is no-recoil, not as accurate, even dirtier load.

I've read bad things about cast lead and Titegroup but I've got some questions.

1. Will shooting Hi-Tek coated bullets eliminate the problem with Titegroup and cast lead bullets?

2. Missouri Bullet Company has many choices. If the coated bullets work well with Titegroup which do you like best for light target loads? 125 gr, 148 gr DEWC, 158 LSWC, something else?

3. Powders I've got on hand are Bullseye, Power Pistol, Titegroup, 700X, and Green Dot. Recommendations?

Thanks.

Dan

 

[tranders]

I am also curious about this topic. I run 3.2 grains Titegroup with 158 LRN and have experienced the same situation out of my Blackhawk.

 

[cfullgraf]

I thought this was SMOKELESS powder.

Generally, the high levels of smoke come from the lubricant that gets burned as the bullet leaves the barrel.

But remember, smokeless powder smokes less than black powder. It is not "smoke free".

I have been using Titegroup with 148 plated DEWC without issue but i will agree, it is not an apples to apples comparison with cast bullets. I run them at lower velocities and i would not hesitate to load cast, or even swaged, in place of the plated bullets. I would not drive the bullets hard though.

 

[rsrocket1]

I have a feeling your pressure with the Bullseye is below 10,000 psi. Most powders get really smokey when they are shot below 10,000 psi. Bulleye is kind of smokey at full pressure being that it is a century old formula. If you want to see real smoke, shoot some black powder, then you'll see how Bullseye "smokeless" powders is a big leap from holy black.

If you worked up your loads to 4.5-4.7g, you'll see a lot of the smoke disappear, but the soot will still be there. In the mean time if you want really light 38 special loads with less smoke, look at Clays, Trail Boss, Titewad (not Titegroup), Extra Lite, e3 and Red Dot in the 3g range (provided you can find any nowadays).

 

[mhblaw]

And don't forget the Green Dot you already have. In my experience it is a very clean burning powder. Have not used in 38, but works well in 44 Special and 45 Colt.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I wouldn't use titegroup for the lead bullets, or at the very least it would be quite low on my list of options. Titegroup has a very high nitro content and burns pretty hot.
Plus, as the bottle says, a little goes a long way....especially in a 38 case.

 

[Comrade Mike]

I wouldn't use titegroup for the lead bullets, or at the very least it would be quite low on my list of options. Titegroup has a very high nitro content and burns pretty hot.
Plus, as the bottle says, a little goes a long way....especially in a 38 case.

No way Titegroup is melting the base of a bullet in the hundredth of a second the hot gasses are in contact with the powder.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I tried it a couple years ago with dismal results. Excessive leading and poor accuracy not to mention very poor case fill. And yes, titegroup burns very hot. It will lead faster than most powders all things being equal.

His gun, his choice. Just relaying my experience.

 

[kerreckt]

I use 3.2gr Titegroup with 158grn.LSWC. I use Titegroup with most all my handgun calibers. It is the lubricant that makes it so smokey. I don't get that kind of smoke when shooting Titegroup with plated or jacketed bullets. Given this "problem", I use lubricant that smells good. You gotta be flexible.

 

[cougar1717]

Titegroup does an excellent job of marking your brass. You will be able to tell exactly which cases were loaded with it by the black scorch marks! Best bet for keeping the smoke down would be lighter plated/jacketed bullets with enough charge to burn cleanly.

It's hot, it's fast, it scorches your brass - that's titegroup!

 

[chiltech500]

Look at the most accurate load with lead 158 gr Lswc in Lymans - hint Titegroup.

Their manual your choice

 

[rogerstg]

I use 3.2gr Titegroup with 158grn.LSWC. I use Titegroup with most all my handgun calibers. It is the lubricant that makes it so smokey. I don't get that kind of smoke when shooting Titegroup with plated or jacketed bullets. Given this "problem", I use lubricant that smells good. You gotta be flexible.

Similarly, my most accurate was 3.4g with 3.2 coming in a close second. Different day, maybe different favorite. I use the softer lead, 12 brinnel and have no problems that others seem to have. No leading, no scorching, very little smoke, accurate.

 

[TfflHndn]

Titegroup burns hotter than most other powders in my experience, and that in turn causes the lube to smoke more. It clears up with coated/plated bullets. Your Green Dot and Bullseye should work very well for you. Just get up into mid-range and you should like the performance. 700-x will work well too, it just meters poorly and I have to hand-dip the loads. I have plenty of other powder so I won't be buying 700-x again for a while, if ever. My favorites for target loads are 148 or 158 grain coated or plated bullets with Red Dot or Clays, and Bullseye comes in close on their heels.

 

[Hardtarget]

When I'm loading .38/158 swc I'll use Unique, Bullseye or WST. I don't know if I really like one over another. It all goes bang!

For .357 and .45acp I've only used Unique...but I've only had the .357 for about three years and the .45 ...well maybe 15 (not sure!)

Mark

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

I load 158gr LWSC with 3.6gr of titegroup.
Works great, extremely accurate.
Yes, it's smokey with lead and it will burn your brass if you load it on the lower end of the charge scale (the case doesn't fully expand to the chamber, and you get scorch marks)

BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL with titegroup! If you charge just one 38spl case and have a peek inside you will know exactly what I mean, there's easily room to quadruple charge and barely notice.

Now, the great thing about TG is that it isn't position sensitive and will give you superb accuracy regardless of where that tiny powder charge sits in the case.

Slug your barrel to prevent leading, and order the appropriate size lead bullets or better yet cast your own! (lead bullets are not created equal)
Start at the lower end and work your way up, until you like the accuracy and recoil characteristics.

 

[chiltech500]

Also, I use Dardas Cast Bullets who offers 3 diameters of bullet for 38sp as well as 45acp. Yes I use MBC also but if you try Dardas once you will notice a difference. Contact me if curious and I can share discount info.

Dr Zubrato is right, adjusting the powder dispenser fora new load I was able to load 6x my load in one case.

 

[JamieC]

While I don't have a huge amount of lead bullet experience, when I switched from regular lubed lead to coated lead bullets, (Bayou Bullets), the smoke was significantly less. As has already been stated, low powder loads can cause more smoke.

 

[BCRider]

Titegroup plays with cast lead bullets just fine. It's all I've used for my cowboy action mid power loads and my 158gn S&W model 10 loads which require a full power .38Spl to shoot to the POA. No signs of leading in any of the guns including the lever rifle.

It's actually the powder of choice in my area because it's very consistent from summer to winter temperatures. More than half of my shooting group that uses lead bullets uses it when they can get it. So I'm not sure what it is you've read about TG having issues with cast bullets.

 

[chiltech500]

I think it's an "urban legend"/ myth. In summer when it's hot out using Titegroup, pick up a shell just shot and you learn what hot is. Someone(s) using a low BN (or caster with inexperience and too low a BN?) may have assumed that heat partially melted their bullet. My guess as to where this idea that Titegroup ain't good with lead came from.

 

[CraigC]

I've been using Titegroup with cast or swaged bullets for years without issue.

 

[Lafitte]

I have burned about 20# of Titegroup in .38special using 125gr bullets and have had no problems. Sometimes it appears to smoke a bit more than at other times. I think weather conditios have to do with the smoke, humidity and such. Out of necessity I am now using Red Dot and think that it may burn a bit cleaner but it had not been an issue with either powder. Your mleage may vary.
Lafitte

 

[TimSr]

Bullseye, like most powders, smokes horribly under low pressure, even with unwaxed jacketed bullets. The warmer you load it, the cleaner it gets.

My 38 powder puff loads, with least puff was using WSF, I want to say 4.0gr, but will have to double check my logs.

 

[Toprudder]

Powders I've got on hand are Bullseye, Power Pistol, Titegroup, 700X, and Green Dot. Recommendations?

I like Titegroup and 700x in 38spl loads, with a slight nod to Titegroup for lower spread and easier metering. But, as others have said, pay special attention when charging the cases, as it is possible to double charge a case and not be easy to visually spot the difference.

I have never tried Power Pistol in 38spl, but I did try it in 45acp. Both are low pressure rounds, and PP did not do well at all for me. It does not burn well until you get to higher charges/pressure. I would not bother trying it, especially since you have Titegroup.

Never tried Green Dot. It is on my list to try sometime.

All of my loads with 38spl so far have been with plated bullets, so I have no experience with cast/lubed bullets in 38spl.