.357 crimp problems

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VrockTDSaz

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I'm having problems with crimping my .357 rounds. I'll get one round set up perfectly, and the next will over crimp and be bulged and not fit in the chamber. I'm using the Hornady dies with the seater and crimp in the same die. I've done the seating and crimping in the same die many times in the past. Just never with .357 magnum.

I'm assuming the problem is that the brass I'm using is different lengths. Though I've never had that problem with other calibers.

Is .357magnum especially sensitive changes in case length when crimping?

Would getting a separate crimp die solve the problem, or would I still have to trim all the brass? I don't trim handgun brass, is there a way to avoid it?
 
The way to avoid trimming is to measure and sort the brass. Load one length at a time. And if you keep the lengths separate after shooting you probably won't have to measure again.
 
Is .357magnum especially sensitive changes in case length
Click to expand...
No, not as far as other roll crimped cartridges go.

Dumb question: do your bullets have a crimp groove?

357 dies do a roll crimp. You will definitely benefit from uniform brass if you are trying to put a taper crimp on, say, plated bullets.
 
I use the lee crimp/seating die but I am willing to bet your are experiencing the same problem. With mine, it isn't a bulge but a collapse of the case wall.

What I have found is that you have to aim for the center of the crimp groove. With the lee die, it tends to begin the crimping action before it is completely done seating. if the edge of the case gets caught at the peak of the crimp groove, it continues seating the bullet and thus collapses or bulges the case.

I am not sure if I am explaining this eloquently. Basically, aim for your crimp to land in the very center of the crimp groove (where the groove is the deepest).
 
The only other thing you can do is find the longest case and set the crimp on it. If you are using 2400 or H110/W296 or other pressure building powder you won't be able to use it. With out the crimp it won't ignite correctly.

If you are using a faster powder than the shorter ones will fire fine without a crimp.

You really need a case trimmer. You really can't crimp with any kind of precision with out trimming the cases to the same length.
 
it's funny, cause I've loaded thousands of 9mm and .40 and not had this problem. And I don't sort those for size. Any ideas why this would be different?

The bullets are 158 gr Jacketed Soft Points and they do have a cannelure.
 
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Sort of get it. Roll crimping is more sensitive to case length.

I'm going to use Enforcer for powder.

I have a Lyman Trimmer. I'll just trim them all to the same length. It seems like the BEST solution, even if it's not the easiest.

Do you also recommend getting a separate crimp die? If so, which?
 
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Look,
when you taper crimp you aren't really crimping into the bullet much, so you don't need a canular. You are basically straightening out the flare from the flaring die. The neck tension from resizing the bullet is what holds the bullet still.

With your problem you could buy a taper crimp die for .357mag and you won't have to worry about the cases being different lengths.

Then it won't be any different than loading your 9mms or 40 S&Ws if that is what you understand the best.

But, again, don't try to use pressure building magnum powders with a taper crimp die, you won't get consistent ignition.

http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Taper-Crimp-Only-Spec/dp/B000N8LL8Y

The semi-auto round you are loading headspace on the mouth of the cartridge so you can't roll crimp them or they will move ahead in the chamber and the firing pin won't reach the primer.

Rimmed brass like .357 mags headspace off the rim of the case so it doesn't matter if the mouth is roll crimped or taper crimped unless you use a powder that has to build pressure by holding back the bullet with a firm roll crimp to make it ignite properly. You cannot use magnum powder with a taper crimp and get reliable ignition because of that.

If you use faster powder like 231, Titegroup, Unique or anything in that burn range you can use a taper crimp and not have to worry about the taper crimps being short and long like they are on the different lengths of the semi-autos.

All you would have had to say was you still didn't understand instead of getting mad.
You need to get a Lyman's 49th edition manual or ABC's of Reloading and read the technical sections of it on how to reload.
 
I wasn't getting mad. Quite the contrary, I appreciate the help. I used a bigger font because when I post with my phone, it gets really small.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I do understand the difference between crimps, I just wasn't positive how length played a roll.

I'm definitely going to roll crimp, I'm looking to get the most out of these loads. So, I'll trim them all to a consistent length.
 
It is unrelated to .357 mag.. In short, any time you are crimping cases that haven't been consistently trimmed, varying lengths are going to present this problem. Trim them, and the problem will be completely eliminated.

GS
 
In over 35 years of reloading (including .357), I have NEVER trimmed a handgun case. Totally unnecessary. Your seating die is not set up properly. Your problem entails the bullet being seated deeper while your die is crimping the bullet.

Don
 
I have a Lyman Trimmer. I'll just trim them all to the same length. It seems like the BEST solution, even if it's not the easiest.
Click to expand...

It is the only solution to the problem you have. If you can get them trimmed to within few thousands of each other, you won't have the problems you are getting, but be sure to set the crimp die up with a case in the middle of your length range and set the seating die to the center of the canular like others said.

You will find that even if you trim them all exactly the same, after you shoot them the length will be off from what they were. After you resize them the length will come back to very close to where they were.

What this means is make sure you resize the cases before you trim them.
 
Are you seating and crimping in one step? This will compound crimp problems when using brass of different lengths. The firmer the crimp, the more tendency to have problems when crimping using cases of differing lengths. Those that seat and crimp in different steps, or apply only light to moderate crimps have less problems when using brass of different lengths. Those that sort cases by length or trim them all to the same length usually have few problems even when applying heavy crimps and seating and crimping at the same time. Get the just?

I trim my cases for heavy revolver rounds one time, either when new or after the first firing of factory ammo. I generally never have to trim then again if I keep them together in batches. I never trim pistol brass that will use a taper crimp, but found when loading heavy recoiling rounds using a heavy roll crimp, I need to trim or sort. An added benefit to having your cases all the same length thus producing a consistent crimp, is more consistent ignition of the slow powders used in heavy recoiling loads, thus giving one more consistent accuracy. Other folks may have differing experiences, but this is what works for me.
 
My .357 brass is a wide range of head stamps picked up at the range and the lengths varied a great deal, so I trimmed it all. I like having really consistent crimps. That said, some people here whose opinion I respect, never trim revolver cases.

If you pick out a couple of the longest cases as well as a couple of the shortest cases, and set your crimp up with these you can get decent crimps on all of them. Set it up so that the longest cases will not buckle. The other cases will simply get less crimp, but you won't buckle cases.


Crimps:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7699828&postcount=14
 
I just sort my 357 brass by length, 4 groups from short to long.. Then reload in batches
 
I had MUCH better results once i Trimmed my 1x shot .357 brass

I has having the same issue. And from THR suggestions, i was told to trim them

Solved my Problem... Only needed to trim them once... and I was good to go

Might try it

Stav
 
I have loaded thousands of 38 and 357 rounds over the past 20 years. I have never trimmed any cases. I roll crimp for cannelure and taper crimp plated bullets. I have seen the Bulging issue a few times, mostly with once fired +p 38 brass, I am not sure if there is any difference, I just backed off the crimp and the problem went away. Mind you, I am just loading target rounds and some JHP's for varmints. All these rounds are used in revolvers so length is not as critical. I did trim some 9mm brass only for frangible bullets (trimming them was a royal PITA!)because you can only use a light taper crimp or risk fracturing the bullet, which sounds scary to me.

Good luck
 
Thinking about this it seems more likely a neck expander issue. I barely hit mine and my bullets are held in with neck tension, very little actual crimp. Make sure you aren't belling the longer cases so much that it becomes a problem.
 
I always trim my revolver brass prior to the first loading. This helps in getting a good roll crimp. There is no reason not to use the same die for seating and crimping at the same time. Just make sure to properly set seating depth before adjusting the die for crimp.
 
Hornady Seating Die

In-line Bullet Seating System
Our seating system holds the bullet, the case neck and the seating stem in perfect alignment in the sleeve BEFORE the bullet enters the neck of the case. The system includes a floating bullet alignment sleeve, a floating steel seating stem and a built-in crimper for benchrest precision. Bullets are aligned in the sleeve as they enter the die for optimum seating and enhanced accuracy.
Click to expand...
Do your other dies have this? Might be the problem?? Instructions - http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/new_dimension_custom_grade.pdf
 
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The die is definitely crimping before the bullet is seated fully. I don't know how to fix that. The first two on the left work fine, obviously the others are not ok.
 

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Either the seating stem is adjusted wrong. (Too high up), or if there is no adjustment left on it, the die is down too far.
 
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