357 mag hunting load suggestion needed

[Captcurt]

Go with a Heavy Bullet.

I shoot the 180gr XTP but I shoot a GP100. You can load the Ruger up pretty good and the cylinder is long enough for the long bullet. In the Smith I would probably shoot a 158gr XTP over some H110/296 or AA#9. Whichever shot the best.

The first deer that I took with a 357 was with a 125gr Speer. Now a dozen deer later I prefer something that is heavier and is more likely to exit. I want a blood trail and two holes leak more than one.

 

[Katitmail]

I shoot the 180gr XTP but I shoot a GP100. You can load the Ruger up pretty good and the cylinder is long enough for the long bullet.

Not to start "vs" discussion, but I always thought GP100 is apples ot apples with 686. Both 357mag. I had GP100 and GP100 MC before, didn't see them "beefier" or anything..

 

[ljnowell]

You will be happy with the starline brass, in my humble opinion it's the best brass made.

 

[gamestalker]

I'm rather surprised those XTP's are running you .22 per round? But to answer your question, Nosler has a pretty good JHP for about .14 per bullet. I run them at full tilt H110/296 loads and they're alright, though they are some what more suspectable to separation than the XTP, I would think a properly placed ahot would get the job done.

But all else aside, if you would like to eliminate as many variables as possible, thus feeling the confidence of the bullet in this application, just spring for a known bullet that's up to the task, Gold Dots or XTP in that order would be my choices. When you look at it from an economical stand point, even using the more expensive Gold Dot is still far more economical than even the least expensive factory options. Gold Dots run me about .25 each, .035 for primer, and about .053 per case for powder (H110) = about $17.00 per 50 round box of top end ammunition. This is a hunting load, so I wouldn't be too concerned about economics for the quantitiy needed, you aren't going to be shooting thousands of them, not even hundreds for that matter. I would think you could get what you need acomplished with a single box of bullets, a pound of powder and a box of primers.

GS

 

[Katitmail]

Yes, XTP were $22/box. Nosler (158gr HP) were $19/box, not much different.

I don't really care about cost of hunting loads, this is not a problem. I just wanted to load something cheaper with same powder charge/fps so I can practice. I have ton's of already loaded lead 158 gr in 38spl cases which I practice with but wanted something close to what hunting loads will be just to get used to it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm also surprised Hornady XTP bullets are costing you that much. I agree the Nosler Sporting bullets are good bullets. You can buy them in 250 round bulk packs. Last box I bought cost me $39 and some change. (15.6 cents/round)
http://www.nosler.com/sporting-handgun-revolver-bullet/

Midway USA had the 158gr Hornady XTP bullets for $19.97 which is a little less than you are paying but with the shipping I'm guessing they are about the same. Powder Valley has them for $18.01.

IMO you can practice with lead bullets, coated lead bullets or plated bullets to keep the cost down. Of course that means you will have to work up 2 different loads but that's not all that time consuming. Trigger time is very important so if you can keep the cost down you can practice more.

 

[Katitmail]

I already have lot's of loaded 38spl with lead which I practice with. Wanted to have another "practice" round that mimics hunting load in power, recoil.

Hopefully POI will match between new and existing load.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I already have lot's of loaded 38spl with lead which I practice with. Wanted to have another "practice" round that mimics hunting load in power, recoil

Try 10 gr of Power Pistol and 125 gr XTPs. They will wake you up in a 586 or GP100. That's what I practice with and it is maximum load with Power Pistol and the 125 gr JHP.

They have about the same recoil as my 14.9 gr of 2400 under a 158gr XTP but the 125gr xtps are cheaper. They have about the same point of aim out to about 25-30yds anyways out of my 4"GP100.

The lightest loads I practice with is 8.3 to 8.6gr of Power Pistol with 158 gr plated Xtreme SWC. (8.6gr of Power Pistol is my Max load for 158 gr anything)

That load is no slouch either. It's about as far as I will push Xtreme plated 158gr bullet.

 

[Ex]

There are lots of good JHP bullets avail. Problem is I also see them in 100 lot bags for premium prices. Wish they would be competitive and offer 1000 lots.

 

[ljnowell]

Try 10 gr of Power Pistol and 125 gr XTPs. They will wake you up in a 586 or GP100. That's what I practice with and it is maximum load with Power Pistol and the 125 gr JHP.



They have about the same recoil as my 14.9 gr of 2400 under a 158gr XTP but the 125gr xtps are cheaper. They have about the same point of aim out to about 25-30yds anyways out of my 4"GP100.



The lightest loads I practice with is 8.3 to 8.6gr of Power Pistol with 158 gr plated Xtreme SWC. (8.6gr of Power Pistol is my Max load for 158 gr anything)



That load is no slouch either. It's about as far as I will push Xtreme plated 158gr bullet.

It seems I remember Alliant listing max under a 158 gr. jacketed bullet of 15.4 gr of 2400. That was a whopper of a load. I load 14.5 OF 2400 under a 158gr lead SWC.

Speaking of power pistol I load 6 grains under a 125 gr JHP in 38 cases and 5.5gr under a 158 in 38 cases(the 125 load is almost max, the 158 is just barely +p). Both are accurate and about as much as I care to shoot from my Airweight.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

It seems I remember Alliant listing max under a 158 gr. jacketed bullet of 15.4 gr of 2400.

I think that is the original S&W .357mag load that came out in 1935 for the N-frame. I wouldn't advise shooting that load very much in any gun you care about. It will usually shoot it loose or stretch the frame. The original load may have been 15.7gr but I here 15.4 referenced to this a lot.

Alliant is now listing 14.8 gr as max on their current web site.

I've shot Power Pistol loads as low as 7.6 gr with 158gr and they were very accurate but they didn't really feel like hunting loads. 8.0 is also a very accurate load with 158gr plated bullets out of my S&Ws and has enough bark to teach you to control recoil.

I started out shooting my heavy loads of 14.9, 158gr XTPs in my GP100 in double action. It forced me to focus on my sights through the trigger pull and not think so much about recoil. I've gotten to the point of shooting almost all my revolvers in double action now. To me it's easier to keep my sight picture using double action .

 

[Captcurt]

Not to start "vs" discussion, but I always thought GP100 is apples ot apples with 686. Both 357mag. I had GP100 and GP100 MC before, didn't see them "beefier" or anything..

Could be. I have not messed the the newer Smiths. I really have a fondness for the Model 19 and 27 though.

 

[gamestalker]

Actually, if I intended to hunt deer sized game with the .357 mag. I would be using the XTP #35780 (FP). That bullet being pushed with a good stout charge of an optimal powder for such, is going to perform very well, much better option than a HP. My experiences with deer and .357 mag. have been unplanned, just happened to be the available combination at that moment, other wise I would likely have used the #35780, or something else of the simular design.

But I still have a great deal of confidence in Gold Dots, the integrity and design of that bullet makes it very capable when it concerns demanding penetration such as deer, especially if it is being pushed by a good worked up charge of a magnum powder, H110/296 serves very well for this.

GS

 

[Buck13]

I shoot the 180gr XTP but I shoot a GP100. You can load the Ruger up pretty good and the cylinder is long enough for the long bullet. In the Smith I would probably shoot a 158gr XTP over some H110/296 or AA#9. Whichever shot the best.

The first deer that I took with a 357 was with a 125gr Speer. Now a dozen deer later I prefer something that is heavier and is more likely to exit. I want a blood trail and two holes leak more than one.

Captain, what barrel length, and what was your impression of the expansion of the XTPs, based on recovered bullets or exit wounds? I know Hornady gives 900-1700 fps as the range for this bullet. It's mostly academic to me, since I seriously doubt I'll hunt with a .357 revo, but I do wonder if they hit as well as they shoot.

 

[Captcurt]

Captain, what barrel length, and what was your impression of the expansion of the XTPs, based on recovered bullets or exit wounds? I know Hornady gives 900-1700 fps as the range for this bullet. It's mostly academic to me, since I seriously doubt I'll hunt with a .357 revo, but I do wonder if they hit as well as they shoot.

I shoot a 6" GP with a ProPoint. The load chronos at 1150 fps. I have never recovered a bullet but most shots have been behind the shoulder and just punched thru the lungs and ribs. Exit holes have been about quarter sized with holes in the lungs up to golfball size. I need to rig up a Hillbilly medium and check the expansion.

 

[Katitmail]

Ok, looks like I got all my dies setup. Please tell me if crimp looks right to you?

New starline brass, XTP bullets, OAL is ~1.586

Those are just blanks, will work up load next..

 

[ljnowell]

I think that is the original S&W .357mag load that came out in 1935 for the N-frame. I wouldn't advise shooting that load very much in any gun you care about. It will usually shoot it loose or stretch the frame. The original load may have been 15.7gr but I here 15.4 referenced to this a lot.



Alliant is now listing 14.8 gr as max on their current web site.



I've shot Power Pistol loads as low as 7.6 gr with 158gr and they were very accurate but they didn't really feel like hunting loads. 8.0 is also a very accurate load with 158gr plated bullets out of my S&Ws and has enough bark to teach you to control recoil.



I started out shooting my heavy loads of 14.9, 158gr XTPs in my GP100 in double action. It forced me to focus on my sights through the trigger pull and not think so much about recoil. I've gotten to the point of shooting almost all my revolvers in double action now. To me it's easier to keep my sight picture using double action .

That load isn't that old. That was published data recently, in the last five years. Probably the most popular 158gr LSWC load is 14.5gr and that's with lead. I know jacketed will take more than that.

Edit: I noticed that all of the data showing 14.8gr is for a gold dot, that could definitely be a part of it.

 

[Steve2md]

I run the heaviest swc I can as fast as I can push it accurately. Mine are 180 gn soft lead, which I powdercoat. The softness of them allows decent expansion, while allowing good penetration.
YMMV, of course

 

[murf]

crimp looks good!

murf

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree, the crimp looks good from what I can see in the pictures. If anything you could seat the bullet ever-so-slightly deeper but only if you want to. I would not worry about the OAL since revolver bullets should be seated into the manufacturer's supplies crimp groove. That is the correct seating depth for that bullet.

 

[ljnowell]

I agree, the crimp looks good from what I can see in the pictures. If anything you could seat the bullet ever-so-slightly deeper but only if you want to. i would not worry about the OAL since revolver bullets should be seated into the manufacturer's supplies crimp groove. That is the correct seating depth for that bullet.

I agree with Arch, the crimp looks good but I prefer to have almost all of the cannelure inside the case.

 

[Katitmail]

Go to google images and search for 357 mag 158 XTP. Funny thing - hornadys image shows oal about same as I did (judging by cannelure) but almost no crimp. Other manufacturers show more crimp and deeper seat. All kind of variations..


To me it feels right to do it like I did. This way crimp holds bullet by the edge. I guess it's all not really important...

Question about H110. Never seen such a powder. Also Dillons powder measure does good job at measuring - it does some spilling when powder bar goes back. Is that just me? Maybe I should use bigger powder bar since this charge almost 2x-3x comparing to fast powders in small cartridges?

 

[Buck13]

Exit holes have been about quarter sized with holes in the lungs up to golfball size. I need to rig up a Hillbilly medium and check the expansion.

Based on my limited experience, that exit wound sounds like evidence of decent expansion. Whether a 4" barrel running a couple hundred FPS slower would do the same is the big question.

 

[murf]

katitmail,

the crimp, in this case, is to prevent the bullet from pulling out of the case. the cannelure on the xtp bullet is dished, not squared off or beveled (lead bullets). the edge of the case mouth should contact the bullet at the bottom of the dish or on the downward slope of the dish. crimping on the upslope of the dish will drive the edge of the case into the bullet and, leave the downward slope untouched. the bullet will pull out of the case slightly (until contact is made with the downward slope of the bullet) when under recoil.

so, your crimp is, imo, perfect.

murf

 

[Hanshi]

I killed quite a few deer with handloaded 125 grain JHP to about 1400fps and also 158 grain JHP Remington factory rounds. All one shot kills; all but one complete pass-throughs. Deer are easy to kill and you don't need all that much penetration.