357 Mag revolver and AA#5

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Matt3357

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I was getting ready to load up some 357 mag mid range loads for my new to me S&W 686 and I was getting some load data for a 158 gr. XTP from about 3 different sources. Two sources were around 8.7 to 9.8, one of those is straight from Accurate arms. Now I've always been told to use the powder manufacturer's data over others but when I got the load data out of my Lee manual(newest edition) it said 7.0 to 7.8 a whole grain different. I usually check three different places and pick a middle of the road load to start with because I don't want to get too high or too low. I have my pro auto disk set up to throw 8.8gr but thought I'd see what everyone else is using just as some reassurance.

Oh and one more question. In any of the manuals I have found, no one provides any load data for 110 gr XTP's. Why is that? and can the 110 gr sierra's load data be used as an approximate?

Thanks,
Matt
 
Accurate Arm just updated their data within the past year or so. The current recommended charge of AA#5 using a 158gr Hornady XTP bullet is 8.6gr to 9.7gr. I would go with that data before using the Lee data. According to Accurate Arms the Max charge will generate only 33,150 PSI which is well below the current SAAMI Max pressure for a .357 Magnum.

BUT!!!!

When in doubt always take the safe route. I would write or call Accurate Arms and voice your concern about the conflict of data and let them verify the data they provided. Since Accurate Arms is now owned by RamShot use this email address [email protected] which is on the Accurate Arms web site.
 
One other thing to take into account. AA #5 is temperature sensitive. If you load close to maximum you will need to keep them out of the direct sun and be aware that in my Ruger that the hotter the cylinder got the faster the bullet went (I used a chronograph) until I started having cratered primers. And yes. I was working at or near maximum powder charge...I no longer use AA #5 for that reason...
 
Bushmaster,

What do you use instead of AA#5 that is less temperature sensitive but still comparable?

Matt
 
I like AA #5, but I have never run max loads with it, and I also double check all my loads at around 100 degrees so I know I am OK no matter what. I shot some the other afternoon at 96 degrees. (It had cooled off a little)

I have backed off of AA #5 a little, but I still like it. I used it for years for "full load" .45's, but they were not max by the data. :)

N340, Unique, Universal, WSF, & HS-6 all work well in that approximate burn range. WSF bumped AA #5 for me in 9MM. (N330 is outstanding in 9MM unless you want to really git)
 
I got the load data out of my Lee manual(newest edition) it said 7.0 to 7.8 a whole grain different.
Click to expand...
Be aware that none of the Lee data is tested by them.
Lee doesn't have a ballistics lab to test loads.

All the Lee manual data is just reprints from all the powder & bullet manufactures.

The data in the Lee book is the data provided by Accurate before Ramshot took over and retested the old data.

rc
 
What do you guys think of Lil'gun for a hot deer load? It's rated at 1500 fps with a 158gr xtp. or Longshot for 1200fps. Looking for a temperature resistant load because I'll be shooting in the summer to get ready for Nov. Deer season. Want something that is consistent. What is an adequate fps for a 158gr xtp for white tail deer at archery distances?

Matt
 
I looked through the Hodgdon data manual and it looks like HS-6 would be my best powder for mid-range velocities (from least to Greatest) That is recommended for each bullet weight I have. I plan on using the 158gr on deer and using the others on coons, ground hogs and other critters that need ridding. So what do you guys think of HS-6, I know one guy a few posts back recommended it. Cleanliness? Temperature sensitivity?

Matt

Thanks,
Matt
 
For factory equivalent loads of around 1,240 fps with a 158gr bullet a slower pistol pIowder will work best. If you like AA powders then No. 9 would be my choice. I've used it in the .357 mag. Other good selections would be 2400, H110 or W296.
 
Matt3357,
You're jumping all over the place. First you asked about a mid-range load then you went right to a "hot deer load." You are asking very different questions there...

When reloading, to achieve higher velocities without pushing the pressures too high you will usually need to go to a slower powder.

In the .357 Magnum you can load light practice rounds with W231 or other powder of similar burn rate. (I use W231) For mid-range rounds you would go to a slower powder like Longshot, AA#5, HS-6 True Blue or other with similar burn rates. (I use HS-6 and sometimes Longshot) When looking for Max velocity rounds you will need to go to the slowest pistol powders like W296/H110, 2400, AA#9, Enforcer, IMR4227 or Lil'Gun. In the .357 Magnum I use W296 with lighter bullets and recently started using Lil'Gun with heavier bullets because Hodgdon reports low pressures when used with heavy bullets. (158gr and especially 170gr and 180gr bullets)

So, there are many powders that will work very well in the .357 Magnum and the one you choose will depend upon the application and bullet weight and metal.

I use W231 for under 900 fps especially with lead bullets. It's clean and accurate.

For over 1000 fps I like HS-6 also especially with lead bullets because HS-6 is extremely accurate with lead bullets but also works well with jacketed bullets.

For high velocity rounds I like W296 best and now use Lil'Gun for heavier bullets especially when loading 180gr Hornady XTP or Cast Performance lead gas checked bullets. Lil'Gun under a 180gr bullet would make a great hunting load with either of those bullets IMO.
 
ArchAngle,

Sorry about jumping around, I see what you are saying. You so far have given me the most thought out and thorough answer and for that I thank you for your time and effort. I guess I should explain what I use currently. I am currently using Missouri Bullet Company 158gr SWC in 38 spl cases with W231, was using AA#5 until I found some 231 but it was a dirty powder. I have not loaded any 357 mag rounds yet as I just got some brass for it. I will be shooting the 158gr XTP as a whitetail deer bullet and my original question should have been, what is a good powder to go with it that is clean, accurate, and will work for 110gr and 125gr XTP's as well. It looks like W296 will give me high velocity in all 3 weights. How is W296 in terms of temperature sensitivity, metering, accuracy, and cleanliness?

Thanks,
Matt
 
After doing some more research on W296, I don't think I will be using it. It sounds finicky and very sensitive to load and crimp. Also seems like it would be kinda hard on my L frame 686. I was looking at the Hodgdon website and Longshot seems to be right in the middle of the road velocity wise, and will work with all three bullet weights. Now comes the question of cleanliness, metering, and accuracy.

Matt
 
W-231 dirty? Funny...I never notice that. I use 7.8 grains under a 125 grain SJHP chronied at 1125 fps from a 2 1/2" barreled S&W Mod 19. And 7.7 grains under a 140 grain SJHP chronied at 1150 fps from the same gun. It's nickel plated and it doesn't show that W-231 is burning dirty. Of course both of these loads are at or near maximum powder charge and should be worked up to carefully...

It's hard to beat for metering, too...
 
sorry out of context, missed a comma there. Should have read:

I am currently using Missouri Bullet Company 158gr SWC in 38 spl cases with W231. I was using AA#5 with success until I found some 231, but it was a dirty powder.

I haven't shot any of my 231 loads, but from everything I hear it is clean accurate and metered dednutz every time I checked it.

Matt
 
Most of the time you run into dirty smoky burning powder, it is usually the lube used with lead bullets. And yes, W-231 will give a lot of smoke and crud with bullet lube. It's a fast and hot burning powder...
 
After doing some more research on W296, I don't think I will be using it. It sounds finicky and very sensitive to load and crimp. Also seems like it would be kinda hard on my L frame 686.
Click to expand...

W296/H110 is not that finicky or sensitive. It just works within smaller parameters than many other powders. A heavy crimp is not hard to achieve, nor is following tested load recipes found in manuals......and staying within those limits of tested loads W296/H110 will be no harder on your L Frame than any factory loaded magnum round, possibly even easier on it than Remmie factory 125HPs.

ArchAngelCD gave you some good advice.
 
Last edited:
W-296 does need a good crimp. No big deal there. It does need to be loaded near max. No big deal there unless you want to download. It does need a mag primer. No big deal there, unless you can't find any.

AA #9 would be a good choice if you are worried about any of those three things. It can be downloaded more, it doesn't need a mag primer, and crimp is not quite as important.
 
is w296 temperature sensitive? I've heard that it does not like super cold weather. is that true?

Matt
 
Matt,
If you are looking for a powder that you can load for Max velocity and still have the option to download at times to middle or middle-hot loads I would suggest using Alliant 2400. 2400 will work well over a wide range of charge weights and bullets weights but it's most clean near the top end of the load range. (like most powders) Also, 2400 doesn't require the use of a Magnum primer like W296/H110, Lil'Gun and a few others.

For your use and needs I think 2400 will serve you best.

BTW, when some people accuse W296 of being temp sensitive, they are talking about temps well below ZERO. Many powders react poorly in those temperatures that's why Hodgdon came out with their Extreme Rifle Powder line.
 
ArchAngelCD,

You again have been the most informative and level headed of 2 forums I have posted this question in, most of the time I have just been berated for not knowing the answer. You have come to the same conclusion I have about powder choice with 2400. Thank you so much for your help.

Matt
 
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