.357 Magnum for Deer?

Should the .357 Magnum shot from a levergun be used on Deer?

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Dudedog said:
lots of deer are taken with a bow and arrow so I would think .357 mag in a carbine would be a step up from that.
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After years of hunting with both, I’ll say I don’t draw a definitive line between these two. I have a little more managable range with a .357mag carbine than with a bow, but I do have greater confidence in a better kill with a bow than the .357.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I'm fairly sure it was forcing cone erosion, not the top strap. The reports came from Freedom Arms if I remember correctly.
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Here it is:
"From Bob Baker of Freedom Arms:
We have seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil Gun. According to customers, some had as few as 30 rounds using Lil Gun through them, some had several hundred. Before we figured out what was happening one customer had sent his gun in for a new barrel. Then 600 rounds later it came back for another new barrel.

A couple years ago we did a test with a M83, .357 Mag. using Hornady 180 gr. bullets. We loaded 50 rds. of three different loads. One was a heavy H-110 load and the other two both used Lil Gun in different quantities.

We fired the H-110 loads first, then cut off the threaded end of the barrel. Rethreaded the barrel and shot one of the Lil Gun loads then rethreaded the barrel and shot the last Lil Gun load.

We found even the light load of Lil Gun caused the gun to get extremely hot. The heavy Lil Gun load had the gun so hot the only place we could touch the gun was on the grips and they were very hot.

Under magnification the surface appeared to have heated to a point of flowing using the Lil Gun loads and the heavy load was worse than the light load. This is probably due to Lil Gun having about 10% more nitro glycerin in it than H-110. "[/QUOTE]
 
I'm no expert (and take my info with a grain of salt), but I've been researching this exact topic, and posted some info here a while back. From what I've found, I would consider the .357 magnum out of a lever gun about 65-75% that of a 30-30 up to 200 yards. It really depends on what "effectiveness characteristic" you look at, but even the .357 with the highest energy rating at the muzzle is equivalent to a factory 30-30 at about 100 yards. The real problem you run into with the .357 is bullet drop past 100 yards.
 
So unless anyone has a better load I'm going to stick with the 16.7g of W296 as it seemed to be the most accurate.
 
I normally use 16.4g of H110/296 with a 158gr either Hornady XTP or Sierra JHC and it does real well. Also use 13.5g of H110/296 with a Hard Cast Coated 180gr Lead Bullet and it is a great shooter as well. Lil Gun is too hot for the little gain. I had a friend that tried Lil Gun in a .357 Lever action and said he dug some of his bullets out of the dirt backstop and the bases looked melted! I didn't see them, but as hot as I've seen Lil Gun get a barrel, I don't doubt it.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I'm not intending on using the .357 on deer, I'm just thinking out loud and wondering what y'all think? Good idea, bad idea, maybe idea? Don't form an opinion until I lay out my case.
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If the goal is to use the minimum weapon, how about rocks? Or an atlatl?

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If the pain and suffering of the animal is of no concern, than why not these?
 
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Slamfire said:
If the goal is to use the minimum weapon, how about rocks? Or an atlatl?

View attachment 800179

View attachment 800180

View attachment 800181

If the pain and suffering of the animal is of no concern, than why not these?
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LOL surprisingly Alabama is one of the few states where deer hunting with a spear or atlatl is legal.

http://www.thudscave.com/petroglyphs/atlatlstatelaws.htm

I image that with a proper point on an atlatl the results, assuming you have the skill for proper hit placement the results would be equal or better than an arrow. The few videos I have seen of successful spear hunting of deer the lethality was impressive with a proper hit. As a species we have probably killed more deer and similar size critters with spears and similar weapon than all firearms combined.

Personally I don't see 357 Magnum as anywhere near the bottom of what most hunters would consider an ethical cartridge to hunt deer with. There are states where 38 S&W (not referring to 38 Special) from a revolver would be legal. 410 slugs are legal in many states. 357 Magnum from a carbine is probably a legal cartridge for deer hunting in nearly every state that allows the use of a center fire rifle.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
What's your problem man? Why are you accusing me of unethical practices when you yourself quoted my post clearly stating I was not going to hunt deer with an .357? Seriously, what's your problem?
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Just thinking out loud, I am not planning to use rocks or an atlatl on deer.
 
Slamfire said:
If the goal is to use the minimum weapon, how about rocks? Or an atlatl?

View attachment 800179

View attachment 800180

View attachment 800181

If the pain and suffering of the animal is of no concern, than why not these?
Click to expand...

I personally don't see the .357 Mag as a minimum weapon for deer. In fact, I'd say far from it. There are a lot of people out there hunting deer these days with what I would call worse weapons for deer. AR's especially. One thing I will say in favor for the .357 Magnum. I'd say 95% of the people I've encountered that are hunting deer with a handgun are experienced and know their limitations. the idiots out there with the AR's shooting deer at 200-300 yards with full metal jacket bullets are way more subject to cause an animal pain and suffering than someone who knows what they are doing with a handgun. I personally know of one guy who shot at least 5 deer last season and never recovered one. He hit all, but was using an AR with metal jacket bullets and was so stupid he couldn't figure out why he couldn't stop one. Talk about pain and suffering!
 
Eddietruett said:
I personally don't see the .357 Mag as a minimum weapon for deer. In fact, I'd say far from it. There are a lot of people out there hunting deer these days with what I would call worse weapons for deer.
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I know the 30 cal percussion cap muzzeloader my grandfather gave me was a deer gun way before there was a legal minimum.
 
For a summary of loads, these I tested in my Ruger New Model Blackhawk with 6.5" barrel and a 158g Hornady XTP
Longshot
8.5g
1135fps
WSP

Winchester 296
15.3g
1267fps
WSPM

Winchester 296
16.7g
1341fps
WSPM

Lil’Gun
18g
1367.5fps
WSPM

and factory Hornady Custom
1379.5fps

So the factory Hornady Custom is faster but I got the smallest grouping with 16.7g of Win 296.
 
Made up some loads for a Marlin 16 in 357, in case ever wanted to use it for deer. The old Speer 170 gdfp was very accurate/high velocity using Lil-gun, and left more room in the case than an 180 xtp. Unfortunately never got a chance to try on deer, but would have expected minimal expansion. Might have some left some where.

Have personally experienced top strap erosion in revolver using Lil-gun in Ruger 32 mag. If memory holds it was very noticeable is less than 20 rounds. Am betting the freedom arms has much tighter cylinder gap.
 
I have been using V.V. N110 (14.4grns) SRP and a 180grn XTP on Indiana whitetail for years with a Marlin 1894 CSS. Around 1700fps from that carbine.
That combo has preformed fantastic! !!!

A properly placed shot (as I would say with ANY!! caliber ) kills, simple as that!

I have XS ghost ring sights that help extend my range to 150yrds.
Anyone that says the 357 is not adequate simply must not have too much experience with the 357 or whitetail deer.

Put the shot where it belongs and it doesn't matter if it's a 357, 30-30, or a 50BMG!
 
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ArchAngelCD said:
I'm talking about the .357 Magnum in a Marlin levergun, not from a short barrel revolver.

I'm not intending on using the .357 on deer, I'm just thinking out loud and wondering what y'all think? Good idea, bad idea, maybe idea? Don't form an opinion until I lay out my case.

About 2 years ago I did some load testing with different bullet weights from a Marlin .357 Magnum levergun. I used a Sierra 140gr, 150gr and 170gr JHC bullet along with a Hornady 180gr XTP and a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet. I used 2400, W296/H110 and Lil'Gun. The velocities I'm going to post are from Lil'Gun which were the highest tested with no loss of accuracy.

.357 in a Marlin levergun
140gr JHC - AV 1987
150gr JHC - AV 1826
170gr JHC - AV 1793 (wow)

180gr XTP - AV 1584
180gr CP WFNGC - AV 1657

30-30 in a Glenfield levergun and Sierra FN bullets
150gr - AV 2038
170gr - AV 1957

170gr using 36.3gr LVR - 2330 fps

So, looking at the above actual data it looks like the .357 Magnum give away very little to the 30-30 when shot from a longer barrel. I'm sure the 140gr bullet at almost 2000 fps or the 150gr bullet at over 1800 fps will take a White Tail Deer cleanly since compared to the 30-30, which is a proven platform, generates only slightly more velocity. (~10%)

So, yes or no and if yes which bullet weight? I like the 140gr bullet or possibly the 150gr bullet. I see no need for a heavier bullet especially since the velocity drops off some but for the Cast Bullet.
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I 've shot and killed deer with one shot from both the marlin long gun and a colt trooper 6"
 
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