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357 magnum LSWC

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Crazy Horse, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    I was reloading 357 magnum bullets using Titegroup and LSWC bullets. The recipe (2019 Hogdon reloading pg 155) called for 4.5 grains of TG and seating the bullet to 1.610. When I seated and tested the bullet, it was slightly longer than the case gauge. to get the bullet flush in the case gauge I reduced the COL to 1.600. That a difference of .010. Based on being at the starting load, I don't think there should be a problem.

    I'll be testing the load on my GP100, but that won't be for a couple of weeks. Has anyone deviated slightly when seating 357 magnum ammunition. I looked up the max length in SAAMI and it listed it at 1.590 which is .010 shorter than the 1.600 I seated the bullet, but still the seating COL I used is .010 shorter than the COL listed in the Hogdon reloading 2019 edition.

    I placed one completed bullet at 1.600 on my Ruger Security six and it cycled just fine.

    Because I used the starting load and only reduced the COL by .010 from the recommended COL (which BTW is .020 greater than the SAAMI load), I don't foresee an issue.

    Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, what was the outcome.

    TIA
     
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  2. MEHavey

    MEHavey Member

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    If it fits and functions... it's fine. Your revolver is the case gauge.
    and 10-thou diff is NBD.... as long as that keeps you in the bullet's crimp groove w/ solid roll crimp.

    4.5gr/TiteGp is 158gr LSWC starting load (IIR Hodgdon Website correctly)
    Shoot it.

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  3. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    If you were at max I would dial it back a few tenths and test. If your below I would not worry. I'm surprised that published load data is not in sami spec. I would reach out and point that out to them.
     
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  4. forrest r

    forrest r Member

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    Good to see you are connecting all the dots. A couple things to consider:

    If you're not using the same bullet hodgdon did then nothing is written in stone. 4 different 35cal swc's
    9Wyshk2.jpg

    Different weights, different oal's

    A 357 case has a lot of volume in it compared to a 40s&w.
    357 ='s 25.6gr h2-o
    40s&w ='s 19.3gr h2-o

    Ramshot put this graph in 1 of their reloading manuals to give reloaders an idea of how they're affecting the pressures of their loads by changing the oal's of the 9mm's & 40s&w's.
    UlcjxB5.jpg

    Reading an oal is 1 thing, how much of the bullet is in the case/how much case volume is left is what counts.

    I've been reloading for awhile now, cast a bunch of different bullets for the 357's (30+ different molds) along with swaging my own lead & jacketed bullets. More often then not there's no data for the bullet I'm using so I always start low and work the loads up. Some people don't like chronographs or don't have a use for them. Myself I've owned them for decades and use them as part of the load development of any new bullet or powder.
     
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  5. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    Forrest r,

    When you say you start off low, do you have a base starting point on COL? Or do you split the difference between min and Max oal (assuming the bullet still Chambers).

    I've seen the calculations for establishing initial powder loads, but other than SAAMI min/max COL, I've never seen a calculation for coming up with an initial oal.
     
  6. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    What is the weight of your bullet?
    Everyone is assuming it's 158 gr?
     
  7. forrest r

    forrest r Member

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    I start with starting loads with known data and my goto powders that I've used countless #'s of. COL's don't mean that much to me as long as they chamber.

    Some bullets for the 357's, a couple of them have data the others use data from bullets that are similar.
    0A0Ga7O.jpg

    Weight isn't as important to me as the case capacity. If a bullet weights 163gr or 152gr I'll use the 158gr data. When I find data for a bullet I'll compare the part of that bullet that sits in the case to a bullet that has no data.

    More bullets that can be used in a 357 that there's no data for.
    xHUCNJn.jpg

    I simply pick data that's close and start low working loads up.

    A s&w 624 44spl pistol that I like to use on 25yd bullseye targets. I was testing 220gr hbwc's, there's no data for that bullet.
    VorIu2C.jpg

    The testing included:
    Seating/crimping the bullet flush/top lube groove bottom lube groove
    Lubed in bottom lube groove only, both lube grooves, tumble lubed (tl), bottom lube groove + tl, both lube grooves + tl
    I used clays powder for the testing starting with 3.5gr and increasing the load in .2gr increments until I topped out at 4.5gr.

    Targets were used/setup @ 25yds along with the use of a chronograph.

    Anyway, glad to see you're looking at oal's, seating depths, case capacity & their effects.
     
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  8. TfflHndn

    TfflHndn Member

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    QuickLoad says the difference in max pressure between 1.590 and 1.610 lengths is about 700 psi. At 1.590 the pressure achieved is 20k, well short of the 35k max SAAMI pressure allowed. Calculated velocity difference is 7 fps. This is using data for your Titegroup load, a Hornady 158 grain SWC bullet and COAL of 1.59 and 1.61. You could easily go down to the published max COAL without issues. The only question is what works best for your revolver. At your 1.60 length the pressure hits 19.7k psi and 901 fps.
     
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  9. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    Sorry. 158gr
     
  10. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    Thank you very much. Quickload? Is there a charge for that application.
     
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    If you roll crimp into the crimp groove I would be very surprised if it didn't fit your cylinder. Ignore what OAL the data has and crimp into the groove. Only if that ends up a lot shorter do you need to worry.

    This is a 125, but it illustrates the point.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm member

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    You could Google the answer. But yes, there is a charge. Almost $200 and it doesn't have many of the newer powders in it.
     
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  13. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    I could, but that would not provide the opportunity to contribute to the discussion n this forum.

    Like:
    Forrest r,
    200 dollars.....damn, that's a bit much. Thank you for providing me the the information, really appreciate it
     
  14. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I loaded my first rounds in 1969 and because it was way pre-web, I just followed the directions for my Lee Loader. I seated the bullets to the crimp groove and made good, safe reloads. Since then I have seated all my revolver bullets to the crimp groove or cannalure, disregarding book OAL (I believe the listed OAL for revolver bullets with a crimp groove or cannalure is just what the tech used and not absolute). I don't have any "short" cylinders or extra long nose bullets and have had zero problems just using the crimp grooves (I think mebbe the bullet designers knew where to put them)...
     
  15. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    125 gr. That's my next load. I've been using Titegroup for 357 magnum, but for this particular load I'm looking at trying to find a recipe for CFE pistol.
     
  16. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    Awhile back an experienced loader mentioned the same technique. It's reliable, but with the tighter limits (min to max loads) on magnum rounds, I try to adhere to recipes a bit closer.
    Thx
     
  17. ericuda

    ericuda Member

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    Crazy if you can find grab some 2400 for your 357. Will take more than titegroup but worth it imo.
     
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  18. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    Definitely, I've been looking to try a different powder. But I'll have to wait until after the panic, when it isn't as difficult to find or as expensive.
     
  19. Obturation
    • Contributing Member

    Obturation Contributing Member

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    357 loves 2400.ive used just about everything else in the book but settled on the old classic 14 grains with a 158 swc and don't need anything else.
     
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  20. nofendertom

    nofendertom Member

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    Another good powder is Unique.
     
  21. ballman6711

    ballman6711 Member

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    I've also found loads with W231 and H110.
     
  22. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    One powder to try that is still on the shelf is imr 4227. Gives you an option at least.
     
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  23. Keeebs

    Keeebs Member

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    I'm new and have started with 357 mag, sorry if I'm jumping topics. The titegroup powder weight of 4.5gr had me thinking. Does powder weight to case volume make a difference with OAL? Example I'm using 14.0gr-ish, if I used 4.5gr of titegroup and kept the same OAL wouldn't the primer fire overtop the powder (since it wouldn't fill the case very much)? OR does does load data assume your using spec 1.590 OAL for the specific bullet?

    Is there a resource that explains this?

    The graph forrest R posted is very interesting as well.
     
  24. AJC1

    AJC1 Member

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    You're now talking about Case fill and in a lot of powders having 80% case fill end up giving you much better accuracy. Some powders are very position sensitive and give you very erratic results. You may see some people doing testing for powder Forward powder Mid and powder rear with all kinds of crazy deviations. Titegroup seems to be really good about being position insensitive.
     
  25. Crazy Horse

    Crazy Horse Member

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    Ericuda,

    Wow, 2400 really gets that bullet going Of course the grains on starting loads are at 18. But initial speeds are ~1300 fps. Guess that's a true magnum. Seeing those figures, It seems like I'm playing with +p loads at best. I don't think my 357 will even wake up.

    Everyone on the forum must be laughing at my post. 4.5 grains of Titegroup for a 357, how cute..... LoL

    I just ordered 1 lb of 2400 for delivery. Yeah paying for hazard fee, but I'm not going to load my remaining 100 cases until it arrives.

    Out of curiosity, I see loads for 44 magnum as well. Does the 44 magnum love 2400 as well? I have a couple of 44 magnums. I've shot a total of 4 rounds through it. Of course it was on an inside range. It surprised the hell out of me. I'm hoping a reload won't cause such a loud bang if I stay at starting loads.

    Again thanks for the recommendation.
     
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