357 Magnum Reloads-Bullets Breaking Up-Can You Help Me Determine the Problem?

[gerrym526]

Guys,
Went shooting my S&W 686+ 4 inch at the range recently and found that my 357 reloads seemed to be shattering, with metal shards hitting me when I was shooting. Not sure if the shards were coming out of the barrel or the cylinder gap, so I stopped shooting at 7 rounds.
I loaded the rounds several year ago when I was just starting out, but have always been careful and conscientious when reloading.
Here are the specs-
Recycled brass (always check for fractures and discard any)
CCI 550 Magnum Primers
Blue Dot 9.7 gr (per Lyman's guide for bullet weight)-I'm in the habit of checking the powder weight on every 10th cartridge to make sure the measure is accurate (using Lee Pro-Auto disk system)
Berry's plated bullet 158gr RN
All reloading done on a Lee Classic Turret Press in single stage mode, not progressive and the factory crimp die is used.

A guy I know at the range who reloads suggested that the problem might be the Berry's plated bullets which come without a cannelure, and suggested I switch to jacketed bullets with a cannelure.
Is he right?

Can anyone help me determine the problem here? I'm going to pull all the bullets loaded in this fashion, since I don't feel safe using them.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Gerry

 

[Jonesy814]

A couple things could cause that. It could be the ammo or it could be the gun. Its doubtful that the entire bullet is shattering. If so the timing is way off. Its more likely the edge if the bullet is being shaved as it enters the forcing cone. Were there holes in the target you were shooting at?
Have you fired any rounds with the same bullet and powder charge in the past?
Have you seen if the gun spits back at you with any other ammo?

 

[mdi]

I have read, but not recently, about magnum loads under a plated bullet caused copper "spray" out of the cylinder gap and possibly the muzzle too. If you are using a roll crimp (and possibly sizing done with the FCD) the plating can get cut/penetrated, etc., and come off the bullet when fired. I only tried about 1,000 in a couple of my guns (45 ACP and 9mm) and I barely taper crimped, but experienced poor accuracy and fouling in the 9mm with upper loads.

If you want to keep trying plated in your 357 try a lighter taper crimp, not enough to break the plating, and possibly lighter loads...

 

[Jim Watson]

I haven't loaded plated bullets for anything but power factor autopistol ammo, but once saw plated revolver bullets at their worst.
The IDPA Nationals one year had a BUG side match with gun and ammo furnished for a moderate entry fee. They alternated two S&W M642s between all those shooters and you got 20 rounds of a name brand's practice .38 ammo loaded with plated bullets. The guns were hot and dirty, the ammo cheaply made, and the targets were getting peppered with shards of copper and flecks of lead. I don't recall any coming back on me, but the plated bullets were definitely coming apart. Oh, yeah, the guns, about 5000 rounds down, were first and second prize.

 

[Walkalong]

One possible issue is poor chamber/forcing cone alignment when the round goes off. Plated is much less tolerant of this than jacketed.

Another could you are over crimping, cutting into the plating and making it fail. Are you using a medium to heavy roll crimp?

The bullet should handle, assuming you haven't damaged the plating and the chambers line up well, around 1200 or so FPS, and you should be under that, so I would look at the two things I suggested.

I had a revolver that hated plated bullets. It didn't break them up, but wouldn't shoot them well no matter what I tried.

But I also have revolvers that I have pushed some plated bullets quite hard in, using a medium to heavy taper crimp.

 

[ray15]

I agree it's possible the timing of the gun is off, but I think the plating being cut by the crimp and failing is more likely. When you pull the bullets you'll know. The plating on Berry's standard bullets is thin; you've likely cut through it.

Plated bullets are workable for hot .357 loads, but I recommend a thickly plated bullet like the RMR Hardcore Match or Xtreme HP or HPCB series. Jacketed bullets are much tougher than any plated bullet and eliminate this sort of concern.

 

[Walkalong]

I agree the likely issue is the crimp, and I would include the Powerbond bullets as being able to take a lot. They are tough. The 125 .38 HP did an average 1257 in the target above, and I have run the 9MM 125s at 1300+ in .38 Super with excellent results.

 

[Patocazador]

Does it shave lead with SWC's? I had a model 29 shaving lead with lead bullets.

 

[bullseye308]

Pull a couple bullets and look at the plating. What did the holes in the targets look like, nice and round or something else? If the plating is intact, and the bullet holes are not perfectly round I’d have a gunsmith look at it and check the cylinder alignment. Also, mark the cylinder with a crayon or something and shoot a few more and see if it is just one chamber doing it or all of them.

Just a few guesses, I’m not a gunsmith and do t play one on the internet.

 

[gerrym526]

Guys,
You might be on to something with suggestions that my crimping may cut through the plating, causing the bullet to fail.

Regarding the gun-when I use factory ammo it shoots like a dream, so it's probably not the gun.

Given that I have to be extremely careful with the crimping process with plated bullets, I may just switch to using jacketed bullets-a little more expensive, but reloading cuts my costs down.

Thanks for the help.

 

[buck460XVR]

Are you sure it was metal hitting you or could it have been unburnt powder? Were you shooting off a bench or freehand? Unburnt powder chunks can feel like metal when they hit. Metal shards will cut you.

 

[Toprudder]

I have read, but not recently, about magnum loads under a plated bullet caused copper "spray" out of the cylinder gap and possibly the muzzle too. If you are using a roll crimp (and possibly sizing done with the FCD) the plating can get cut/penetrated, etc., and come off the bullet when fired. I only tried about 1,000 in a couple of my guns (45 ACP and 9mm) and I barely taper crimped, but experienced poor accuracy and fouling in the 9mm with upper loads.

If you want to keep trying plated in your 357 try a lighter taper crimp, not enough to break the plating, and possibly lighter loads...

I suspected that I was having an issue just like you mentioned, with my 44 mag. After shooting about 50 rounds of plated bullets, I saw flecks of plating in the gun, and leading in the barrel. I know the plating was not being cut during crimping (verified by pulling some test rounds) so the only thing I could think of was that the plating was not standing up to the pressure. These were not magnum velocity loads, I was using a non-magnum powder and was about 150fps slower than magnum loads, and less than the recommended 1200fps for the plated bullets.

I have switched to Zero 240 JSP bullets for all my 44mag loads for my revolver and carbine.

 

[Nature Boy]

One possible issue is poor chamber/forcing cone alignment when the round goes off. Plated is much less tolerant of this than jacketed.

Another could you are over crimping, cutting into the plating and making it fail. Are you using a medium to heavy roll crimp?

The bullet should handle, assuming you haven't damaged the plating and the chambers line up well, around 1200 or so FPS, and you should be under that, so I would look at the two things I suggested.

I had a revolver that hated plated bullets. It didn't break them up, but wouldn't shoot them well no matter what I tried.

But I also have revolvers that I have pushed some plated bullets quite hard in, using a medium to heavy taper crimp.

View attachment 785992

Note to self: if you ever happen to have walkalong challenge you to a duel......RUN!

 

[mdi]

Given that I have to be extremely careful with the crimping process with plated bullets, I may just switch to using jacketed bullets-a little more expensive, but reloading cuts my costs down.

Thanks for the help.

You can spend a few more pennies and get good shooting, safe ammo, or continue to try plated bullets with the associated problems. Plated bullets worked so-so for me, but not any better than my cast bullets. My cast bullets no longer lead my guns and if I need higher velocities, I go with jacketed bullets designed for a semi-auto or revolver...

 

[someguy2800]

I often get hit in the face with flakes of unburned powder shooting 357 magnum. If they plating is really shaving off here are a couple things you can try.

rmr plated bullet with cannelure. These are a much thicker plating than the standard berrys and the crimp groove should help keep the plating from cutting.
https://www.rmrbullets.com/products...8-158-gr-rmr-round-nose-flat-point-plated-new

zero brand jacketed bullets. Very close to the same cost as berry's. My favorite 357 bullet is there 125 grain flat point.
http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZBJ-38S

I have shot thousands of berry's 125 fp in 38 special. I roll crimp them heavily and if you pull a bullet the plating will be uniformly cut the whole way around, but at 38 special velocities this seams to have no ill effect. They are very very accurate and I have even shot them into water jugs to recover the bullet and the plating does not come off from where its cut. At 357 magnum pressures however this may be an entirely different story.

 

[gerrym526]

Are you sure it was metal hitting you or could it have been unburnt powder? Were you shooting off a bench or freehand? Unburnt powder chunks can feel like metal when they hit. Metal shards will cut you.

My hands had cuts that were bleeding, so these were definitely metal shards. Could also see them as well.