Bullets Without Cannelure-Taper Crimp Or Roll Crimp?

[gerrym526]

Guys,

A beginning reloader here. Have a Lee Classic Turret Press, and have successfully turned out my first batch of 45ACP using the 4 die setup-ie. including the factory crimp die. Used the factory crimp die to produce a good taper crimp that helps my loads feed very well into my Colt Gold Cup.
Now I want to move to 38/357, and bought a supply of Berry 158grain RN bullets that don't have a cannelure.
My question in setting up the Lee die set is-do I taper crimp a revolver round where the bullet doesn't have a cannelure. I don't see any way of creating a roll crimp, because there's no groove to roll the top of the cartidge into.
My Lyman reloaders guide talks about roll crimping revolver rounds that don't headspace off the top of the cartridge (ie. like the 45ACP), but doesn't make any mention of non-cannelured jacketed bullets and how they should be treated.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Gerry

 

[Steve Koski]

Gary,

You don't need a cannelure to roll crimp. There is plenty of force to push the case mouth into a smooth sided bullet.

Koski

 

[918v]

If you roll crimp into the side of a Berrys plated bullet, you will lose any case tension on the bullet you may have. The case will buckle away from the bullet and it will spin on the crimp.

 

[Walkalong]

I taper crimp plated bullets in .38 Spl & .357 Mag.

I shot some Berrys 148 Gr DEWC, 148 Gr HBWC, and 125 Gr TrFPs today. All lightly taper crimped. All in .357 brass. Most from my 586, but a few from my Trooper Mk III. Lots of fun.

but doesn't make any mention of non-cannelured jacketed bullets and how they should be treated.

I have not seen any jacketed pistol bullets meant for revolver rounds that did not have a cannelure. That said, a heavy taper crimp could be used, as it works on cannelured jacketed bullets. Those Berrys are plated, not jacketed.

 

[243winxb]

FAQ: How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?- See Link

Now I want to move to 38/357, and bought a supply of Berry 158grain RN bullets that don't have a cannelure.
My question in setting up the Lee die set is-do I taper crimp a revolver round where the bullet doesn't have a cannelure.

Lee dies are said to taper crimp first then turn in to a roll. Neck tension is what holds the bullet. Use a light taper, just enough to remove the bell. After firing 5 shots out of a revolver, check #6 , the last round in the cylinder before firing. Has it moved forward, longer COL? If so, you may need a roll crimp to help the neck tension when shooting full power 357 mags. http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

Plated bullets are very difficult to cannelure. It requires an extra step after the plating and if not done carefully can ruin the plating. We only put a cannelure in two bullets (45-70 and 500 S&W). You shouldn't need a cannelure on our other bullets. If you feel the need, you can use a snug roll crimp to keep bullets in place. Just ensure you don't get the roll too tight such that it severs the plating and destroys the bullet.
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[Walkalong]

Do yourself a favor and buy a Redding taper crimp die.

 

[Sensai]

Your factory crimp die will be fine. Don't overdo the crimp on those plated bullets, though. They're a little tender for a stout crimp.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I have loaded a pile of Berry's plated .38/357 using Lee dies.....I don't flare the cases much. The bullets seem to slide in place well. I crimp them just enough to take out any flare. I've loaded 'em to what I would call mid-range magnums. I've never had any problem with them moving.

 

[Walkalong]

Don't overdo the crimp on those plated bullets, though. They're a little tender for a stout crimp.

Which is why he needs to do himself a favor, get a real taper crimp die, and not try to taper crimp with a roll crimp seater. The crimp ledge on the Lee is steep so it can roll crimp. It is not well suited to taper crimping, especially if cases are not trimmed to a consistent length.

The Lee claims to taper and then roll crimp, but it never taper crimps IMHO, as the ledge is to sharp. The Redding profile Crimp die, on the other hand, really does have a taper crimp ledge that leads into a roll crimp ledge.

Anyway, Lee also makes a taper crimp only die, and it will work too. It just isn't as nicely polished out like the Redding. Only 11 bucks though. Get one or the other and crimp after seating.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Do yourself a favor and buy a Redding taper crimp die.

I bought the Lee Taper Crimp Die instead at half the price. It works quite well as I'm sure the Redding die does.

 

[Walkalong]

The one I linked to?

 

[bergmen]

From the Berry's website FAQ (http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?n=71877).

Plated bullets are very difficult to cannelure. It requires an extra step after the plating and if not done carefully can ruin the plating. We only put a cannelure in two bullets (45-70 and 500 S&W). You shouldn't need a cannelure on our other bullets. If you feel the need, you can use a snug roll crimp to keep bullets in place. Just ensure you don't get the roll too tight such that it severs the plating and destroys the bullet.

I load Berry's in four calibers, two auto and two revolver. For the revolver cartridges, one is .38 Special and I use my 9mm taper crimp die and for the .45 Colt I use my .45 ACP taper crimp die.

Dan

 

[Walkalong]

I taper crimp plated bullets in .45 Colt with a .45 ACP seater as well. I use Redding taper crimp dies for .38 Spl & .357 Mag.