.357 Magnum with lead

[Dog Soldier]

Yes, I also add some Linotype to my WW metal. I am getting more interested in the powdered metal process. Thx for your message.

 

[RealGun]

As you are aware gas cutting is caused by undersized bullets. Cast bullets are poured to the pressures that the load will develop. The bearing surface of the bullet can develop fatigue in a long barrel and fail. I am going to experiment with the powdered coating process. It allows the use of WW alloy in high pressure applications. Harbor Freight has the gun and compounds.

What does that mean? We don't usually know the actual pressure number, and there is no direct correlation that I know of. We could guess based upon velocity ranges maybe. I don't see the science that some want to portray. What I see is people throwing up their hands and going to coatings.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

What does that mean? We don't usually know the actual pressure number, and there is no direct correlation that I know of. We could guess based upon velocity ranges maybe. I don't see the science that some want to portray. What I see is people throwing up their hands and going to coatings.

Actually there is more to it than just giving up on cast lubed bullets. Some indoor ranges don't allow exposed lead bullets anymore yet allow coated. Then there is the smoke indoors associated with lubed bullets. Not to mention other advantages already covered in this thread and throughout the cast bullet community.

I know there are some that would never change if they were proven to be superior in every way (which they aren't). In the end some will never shoot them or use them. Many will. Myself, I'm not one to like changes either but I keep an open mind and give new things a chance if they make sense. In the case of coated bullets other people had tested and confirmed their value before I started shooting them myself. The next phase was for me to coat my own. It's been over 2 years ago since I started coating my own and the processes have gotten easier and faster since then due to many more people getting on board and devising better methods.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Wreck-in-Crew, Thanks for your knowledge of this modern technology. Real Gun needs to understand we are not opposed to his use of early lube technology. The powder coating allows the use of scrap lead. The lead sources are being closed to us. This may be an answer for us who will be scourging lead.

 

[Mauser69]

I almost hate to say this. USSR is correct. I cast many 100s of thousands of bullets. Many .357s and .44s to specs that were asked for. I always got complaints that they were getting lead in their barrels.
When I would say they should use bullets that were not so hard they all said the same thing. "They are not magnum". Testing hundreds of rounds for accuracy and leading we found that softer bullets were always more accurate and caused less leading. All cast bullets cause leading to some degree. Those who claim not just do not see it or know what it is or looks like. We also should know by now that lead bullets cast or not do not cause high PSI. Lubes can make a difference. Softer lubes do not always mean less leading. The fact that Elmer used softer lead for magnum rounds did not mean he fought with leaded barrels to any serious degree.
The we hear the guy that just tosses a few jacketed rounds down the tube to clean the lead out. OK, That will surely create some PSI.
There is no cure. Coated bullets are not a cure. Proper fit and you will get less leading. By proper fit we can include the base of the bullet being soft enough to expand out to the rifling and create a gas seal which in turn will create less leading and much better accuracy.
Yes we can get too soft. And yes we can get too hard.
It is a fact that bullet companies attempt to convince shooters to buy their extreme hard cast bullets assuming they are just what they need.
The beveled base on those SWC bullets was created for ease of getting them started in your brass at the press. Nothing to do with flight. Some assume they are sort of Boat tail design. Fact is any good flat based bullet is actually capable of much better accuracy. But they are harder to get in the case. The ultimate cast bullet would actually have a concave base to assist in the base expansion. It has been played with but did not release form molds very nice.
The hard cast must be loaded at or near full spec to work correctly. That is what bullet companies assume you are doing. A medium hardness can be played with and still get good results. Stay in the middle with hardness and you can go hot or cold and have way less issues.

IMO, you are pretty much right on - I may quibble with a few points, but that just makes for a good discussion. I noticed most everybody just ignored you - not surprising; you will never convince 96% of the know-it-alls on these forums. Leading, or the imagined lack there of, is a religious subject. Anyone that actually wants to discuss this subject to LEARN about it is simply ignored, or drowned out if they persist. I once tried to provide similar information, including great amounts of detail and lots of pictures, but the goobers just could not deal with it. It did not take me long to just shake my head and go about my business while they laughed and pointed, secure in their ignorance.

 

[mdi]

True, when I stated casting years ago "hard cast" meant bullets were actually hard and rarely used (most of my cast bullets were 10-12 BHN, even my Magnums). Now all lead bullet that are not swaged are called "hard cast". Today most commercial casters produce bullets that are unnecessarily hard with poor, too hard lube...

 

[Reefinmike]

I agree with the others saying that too hard of a bullet is more often the issue. Good posts worth reading twice from both Wildfire and Wreck-n-crew.

I started casting about 6 months after picking up reloading some 4 or 5 years back. I thought I had a good grasp on reloading and casting but I am still learning new stuff every day, 45,000 reloads later. I had moderate success with my own cast bullets but I was never able to fully get away from leading the barrel some. My biggest issue was the simple 38spl. I pulled my hair out for some time trying harder alloys, different lubes, water quenching, omitting sizing, sorting bullets by diameter etc. It wasn't until I cast some bullets with soft range lead(~8bhn) with a stiff +p charge of fast burning bullseye that the leading went away. Very minimal leading was visible after 300-400 round range sessions. They worked and shot well but there was still much to be desired! I was stuck loading only what I considered lead friendly calibers-mainly 38 and 45acp. The bullets were sticky and gross to handle. The alox lube smelled bad and was very smokey.

So when the powder coating craze caught on a few years ago, I jumped right in and gave it a try. Call it "cheating" or a "bandaid fix" but I'm a powder coater for life.

The bullets are pretty cool looking- pick your favorite color or even color code for different loadings
no more sticky lube
no more smoke
Minimizes exposure to lead when reloading, handling ammo at the range and when shooting.
never even a smudge of lead in the bore
Gun and hands are no longer black after shooting 100 rounds
Good for upwards of 2,500fps
Lead alloy is not much of an issue anymore. I use half pure lead and half COWW for most standard pistol loads. I use Clip on wheel weights only for anything 1,500fps or faster
They're slick! 1-2% faster than traditional lead and lube bullets, 5-7% faster than a fmj bullet of the same weight given same powder charge and seating depth inside case.

Yes, powder coating is a good way to avoid leading but it is not a cure all! you still need to know the fundamentals behind loading and casting the bullets. The bullets still have to be hard enough to grab the rifling. I have a prized load that I dont think would be possible if it weren't for coated bullets. 164gr 357 magnum coated lswc cooking along right at 2,000fps from a 16" rossi 92.

Edit: added "minimizes exposure..." line.

 

[Wildfire]

I see some here get it. Testing powder and lubes are part of the game. What works in one gun does not always work in the next. I too learned years ago when shooting IPSC that fast burning powders caused less leading with cast bullets. Seemed we always had plenty of powder nuts that used everything under the sun trying to get that perfect load. They would even argue about primers.
My IPSC days are over. Now I would rather cast softer stuff for my OLD Colts and a very cool 1892 I finally ended up with. The round I shoot most these days is the .45 Colt.
My Ruger and my 1892 can send them out there way past normal magnum specs.
But, I hunt with these and live in Michigan. It does not take huge magnum loads to kill a white tail and or a hog.
158 grain cast bullets at around 10 from a .357 mag Ruger rifle with an 18.5" barrel drop hogs in their tracks. Literally. My oldest grand daughter dropped hers at 70 yards and put that round through both front shoulders of a 200 lb hog and it never took another step.
The other grand daughter using the same rifle {They share}Dropped hers at about 40 + yards and it went maybe 8'.
I killed 2 deer this year with my 1892 lever rifle with 237 grain cast bullets that are not even close to mag specs.
The IPSC loads we ran were always the hard magnum bullets and we always ended up with leading. Fast paced shooting and a lot of it and you get some leading. That is when I went softer. The stop plate at 40 and 50 yards was not as hard to hit anymore.
I used to sell bullets until it became a none profit ordeal. Casting from 20 lb pots gave a nice uniform mix. Casting by hand from small pots is maybe not so true. Every batch could be different for some.
Anytime we go to extremes with speed we may need extremes with hardness. But for the most part normal shooting from normal handgun loads does not require magnum cast bullets or any supper special lubes. Coatings work. Normal bullet lubes work too. All we need to do is adjust to the game we wish to play.
It may be just me but I found that SS barrels lead way worse that any carbon blued barrel.

 

[Walkalong]

What does that mean? We don't usually know the actual pressure number, and there is no direct correlation that I know of. We could guess based upon velocity ranges maybe. I don't see the science that some want to portray. What I see is people throwing up their hands and going to coatings.

What does it mean? I agree, not well worded.

Some people are giving up and switching, yes, but many, many, people are able to shoot lead with no leading. And some that switch do it for other reasons than leading, one of which was just touched on.

If someone follows your posting, it is very clear you don't see the science behind stopping leading with lead bullets, but the information is out there, and it can be done, it's not voodoo. People over complicate it all the time.

 

[RealGun]

What does it mean? I agree, not well worded.

Some people are giving up and switching, yes, but many, many, people are able to shoot lead with no leading. And some that switch do it for other reasons than leading, one of which was just touched on.

If someone follows your posting, it is very clear you don't see the science behind stopping leading with lead bullets, but the information is out there, and it can be done, it's not voodoo. People over complicate it all the time.

The only science I am interested in is what bullets to buy that will work better, seeing through the marketing hyperbole that never seems to prove itself.. I don't cast my own. Most guns I have made their obligatory trip to the gunsmith to address any fit issues.

 

[Rickt300]

My method of the rifle handgun ammo quandry is to search for and to find a cast load that runs 900 fps in the pistol. The first thing I try is to run the bullet as cast, usually quenched wheelweights. This will give me around or maybe less than 1400 fps in the rifle. Working ammo for both guns. Then I worked up a heavy jacketed load that is safe in both guns. Most of the time you can't do this with a 44 magnum because of the rifle twist rate, won't shoot slow cast bullets at all. The 357 will work just fine though.