Having problem duplicating a load my Dad had. He never wrote anything down and I can't figure it out. After he passed I got the powders he used. For the 357 he had H110, 296, unique and IMR 4227. The H110 and 296 I tried with standard and mag primers. There wasn't enough powder to try usinghusing Sierra 158 jhc. I have 2400 that I use in my 77/44. I tried it with standard primers still can't get better than 3" groups at 50 yards. Dad's loads are less than 1" at 50. Question is, do I buy 4227 or go with lighter or heavier bullets with the powder that I have. Thanks
357 Marlin
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GooseGestapo
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Your post is confusing. No mention of a Marlin in the narrative.
When I had a 77/357, I found 17.8gr of LilGun under a 158gr JSP to be the most accurate.
For the .357mag, I’d use 16.0gr of H110 (Win 296 is same thing in different label) under a 158gr XTP. Do use a magnum primer with H110.
3”groups at 50yds with iron sights would be good.
When I had a 77/357, I found 17.8gr of LilGun under a 158gr JSP to be the most accurate.
For the .357mag, I’d use 16.0gr of H110 (Win 296 is same thing in different label) under a 158gr XTP. Do use a magnum primer with H110.
3”groups at 50yds with iron sights would be good.
Charlie98
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These days H110 and W296 are the same identical powder... but it sounds like you are using older powders, which were close, but not the same. Always use Magnum primers with those two powders.
I've not found 2400 to be as accurate as other powders in my Marlin (.41MAG,) so if you aren't getting the accuracy you are looking for, you should try a different powder, or a different bullet... or both. As GG mentions, I have found the Hornady XTP to be an exceptionally accurate bullet in everything I've used it in.
Unique will work very well in your Marlin, but it will not produce the velocity those other powders do. I am also a big fan of IMR4227, particularly in a carbine-length barrel... it is my primary powder in my .41 Marlin.
I've not found 2400 to be as accurate as other powders in my Marlin (.41MAG,) so if you aren't getting the accuracy you are looking for, you should try a different powder, or a different bullet... or both. As GG mentions, I have found the Hornady XTP to be an exceptionally accurate bullet in everything I've used it in.
Unique will work very well in your Marlin, but it will not produce the velocity those other powders do. I am also a big fan of IMR4227, particularly in a carbine-length barrel... it is my primary powder in my .41 Marlin.
4227 is on the slow side for 357. I got unburned kernels with it. I used a 20" barreled Rossi.
OP. Do you have a scope or irons?
I'm getting your crimp or powder measuring is suspect.
Any bullet with h110 and a mag primer should do better than 3 inches at 50 yards in a rifle if you can see the sights good enough.
ballman6711
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I would probably pull one of the rounds apart, and weigh the charge. Then I would compare the powder to the ones you listed, and maybe identify it. I would also weigh the bullet, and try to identify that as well.
FWIW I like a Sierra 158gr jsp with 15.8gr of H110 in my revolver. Haven't shot it through my rifle yet.
chris
FWIW I like a Sierra 158gr jsp with 15.8gr of H110 in my revolver. Haven't shot it through my rifle yet.
chris
Charlie98
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Interesting, considering it's in the same burn range as 2400... and many people swear by 2400 in the .357. It's awesomesauce in the .41 Marlin with a 20" barrel. I tried it in my .45 Colt pistol and it was terrible, so maybe the combo isn't right with the .357, either.
For me, it was similar to running bluedot in 38 special. It's accurate. Gives decent velocity. But leaves some kernels behind.
It's great in 44 mag. I've never run a 41.
Charlie98
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I have run BlueDot in the .38SPC... definitely not the right powder for the job!
Well... life isn't over yet! You still have a chance to make things right...
Mr_Flintstone
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In my limited experience, all guns have their own idiosyncrasies. If you intend to shoot this Marlin, and your father had a very accurate load that you still have an example of, I would do as ballman stated, and take one apart and try to weigh and identify the components.
Short of that, I have had very good luck with Sierra 158 gr bullets and IMR 4227 in my Henry. IMR 4227 seems to be a little more consistent than Win 296/H110 for me, but I have to use magnum primers. 2400 is great too, and you can use regular small pistol primers.
When I load for velocity, I use H110, when I load for accuracy, it’s 4227 or 2400. But as I stated above, that’s for my particular gun. Yours may vary slightly.
Short of that, I have had very good luck with Sierra 158 gr bullets and IMR 4227 in my Henry. IMR 4227 seems to be a little more consistent than Win 296/H110 for me, but I have to use magnum primers. 2400 is great too, and you can use regular small pistol primers.
When I load for velocity, I use H110, when I load for accuracy, it’s 4227 or 2400. But as I stated above, that’s for my particular gun. Yours may vary slightly.
GooseGestapo
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H110 and Win296 we’re always the same powder. Differences in published data was a result of lot-to-lot variations and differences in components used. (Brass, bullets, primers, test firearm).
Don’t be afraid of LilGun. It causes flame erosion with revolvers, but does wonderful things in a rifle. I got 2,050fps with a 158gr JSP over 17.8gr from a20”bbl Winchester ‘94. Pressures are nearly 10,000psi below max for .357mag but increasing powder decreases velocity. Well documented when Lil’Gun was introduced but ignored since...
I like #2400, but with the new lot#’s I only get ~1,700fps. Alas I’ve used up all my ‘70’s production #2400.
#4227 does really good with 170gr and heavier cast bullets and 180gr and 200gr jacketed.
Otherwise, my experience mirrors Mr.Flintstone.
Don’t be afraid of LilGun. It causes flame erosion with revolvers, but does wonderful things in a rifle. I got 2,050fps with a 158gr JSP over 17.8gr from a20”bbl Winchester ‘94. Pressures are nearly 10,000psi below max for .357mag but increasing powder decreases velocity. Well documented when Lil’Gun was introduced but ignored since...
I like #2400, but with the new lot#’s I only get ~1,700fps. Alas I’ve used up all my ‘70’s production #2400.
#4227 does really good with 170gr and heavier cast bullets and 180gr and 200gr jacketed.
Otherwise, my experience mirrors Mr.Flintstone.
AJC1
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Are you loading the same bullet he did. You can do a ton of measurements to clone his load and still not match it if something is different. Match exactly what you can and then you will still have to test for things like crimp. If you use the same dies that may make things easier. Learn from your struggles and document the process so if you go a long time between loading sessions your not back to square one again.
WestKentucky
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This may seem like a stupid question, but do you still have any of his rounds? You can pull it down to figure out what bullet, how much powder, which powder (smell or sight may eliminate one or two options) and you can get exact round specs from the loaded rounds. At that point it’s just a question of setting up the dies, and trying a powder or two at the given weight to see what works. There may also be some other tricks in the mix too, like some of the old timers using cream of wheat as a filler to help pressure be consistent.
Mr_Flintstone
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In your first post, you said that you tried H110 with regular small pistol primers. Keep in mind that with H110, you’ll need magnum primers for any kind of consistency. Also, in your first post you said you were using Sierra bullets, and Speer in your last post. Those two bullets have a somewhat different profile. Try to find one that is closest to the original. Good luck with your endeavor.
I also said that I used mag primers. I tried standard and mag primers in H110 and 296.. standard in 2400. My Dad used mag primers in his load. I was just looking to see if it was a big difference between the two. Thanks
ballman6711
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I use only magnum primers in both 38 and 357 with both H110 and W231. BUT, I did work up my loads with the magnum primers.
Keeps it simple and works for me.
And I'm glad to see you figured it out. Hope you'll give us a range report once you load and shoot a few.
chris
Keeps it simple and works for me.
And I'm glad to see you figured it out. Hope you'll give us a range report once you load and shoot a few.
chris
Charlie98
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After doing a bit of research... I see that you are right! I was always under the impression that they were different until recently... the quite different data sets in older reloading manuals vs now identical numbers. Learn something new every day...
ArchAngelCD
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I would give 2400 a try with a standard primer and a charge of between 13.5gr and 14.5gr. For the lever gun I would stay close to 14.5gr with a 158gr bullet.
Always verify data you get from a stranger in the internet.
Always verify data you get from a stranger in the internet.
buck460XVR
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What you have found is a recipe that will generally work well in all .357 platforms with almost any 158gr jacketed bullet. While not max, it should give decent accuracy and will shoot pleasantly from your lever platform. If I was to hunt with your lever, I'd probably up the hunting load to at least 16 gr and change the bullet to a JSP.
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