Car Knocker
Member
That would weaken the topstrap, same as flame cutting.
357 Maximum Super Blackhawk, please educate me
- Thread starter Peter M. Eick
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ChristopherG
Member
S&W put exactly such a little shield on its 340 scandium snub in .357 mag, to address the problem of topstrap cutting on an aluminum-alloy frame that had been around since Bill Jordan proposed an airweight snub in .22 magnum.
For the .357 max, though, I think Jim's solution is far simpler; just don't shoot the light bullets.
For the .357 max, though, I think Jim's solution is far simpler; just don't shoot the light bullets.
Crosshair
Member
Yea, but where is the fun in that.
I was thinking a simple piece of steel that could be wraped around and crimped into place. It would probably need to be replaced often. But it would still benifit guns shooting the heavier bullets. You could probably just use tin foil and tape and it would proably hold up enough for a range session. Just throwing out ideas.BluesBear
member
I think the Blackhawk topstrap could endure a lateral .025" x .5" dovetail slot and survive just fine.
Jim March
Member
Towards the middle maybe. Not at that absolutely crucial junction point near the barrel...and not in a caliber that can generate pressures in excess of 44Mag spec.
Not in MY gun anyways.
Not in MY gun anyways.
Crosshair
Member
Mabee if someone ever makes another .357 Maximumn revolver they will incorporate the idea of a replaceable shield. Have it slide in a dovetail and hold it in place with a set screw. Will need a little extra metal in that area, but nothing a good design couldn't solve.
i have a 357 max tc wouldnt trade it for anything using 125 hollowpoints at hornady max according to my father it will blow a coyote in two using either hard cast or full profile jacket 180 i have gotten full penetration on deer and hogs also ive broke both front shoulders on an elk at 100 yards if you dont believe me ive got pictures
one shot one kill
one shot one kill
Hutch
Member
Had a 10" Contender in Max, and it loved heavy bullets like the Speer 180gr TMJ. I loaded some Speer 180gr .358 SP rifle bullets that shot well. I'd bet they'd hold together. I have no clue whether they'd fit in the cylinder, tho'. I stoked up with H110, which I've read here is BAD for flame cutting.
Peter M. Eick
Member
I will try and shoot some pictures tomorrow.
I hit my local friendly reloading store. so now I have H4227 and imr-4227 along with 1000 WSR primers, 500 pieces of brass and dies. I had 158 grn jhp's and some 180 grn softpoints.
Maybe tomorrow I can catch some time to load up a ladder test with the 4227's and RL7 to see what the slow powder will do. I have to say I was surprised how long the cases where. I had never seen one belore. Sort of like a short 38-55 round.
I hit my local friendly reloading store. so now I have H4227 and imr-4227 along with 1000 WSR primers, 500 pieces of brass and dies. I had 158 grn jhp's and some 180 grn softpoints.
Maybe tomorrow I can catch some time to load up a ladder test with the 4227's and RL7 to see what the slow powder will do. I have to say I was surprised how long the cases where. I had never seen one belore. Sort of like a short 38-55 round.
Ben Shepherd
Member
I have one as well. Great gun. I can't really get the sights to "ZERO" for anything under a fairly warm 158 load. Hope you enjoy your new toy.
One thing though-
Those who have been on board a while will remember I used to be a lot more active. You will also remember that making "ruger only" pistol loads is my thing.
That being said: Don't shoot a 357 Max without earplugs!! It is the only pistol I have that cracks like a rifle.
One thing though-
Those who have been on board a while will remember I used to be a lot more active. You will also remember that making "ruger only" pistol loads is my thing.
That being said: Don't shoot a 357 Max without earplugs!! It is the only pistol I have that cracks like a rifle.
VonFatman
Member
Hello Peter,
I too have been after a Maximum gun for a while...I ended up with a barrel for my Contender.
If you run across some good load recipies, I'd sure apprecaite you thinking of me!!
Did you ever get the letter on that pre-27 I sent your way? Just curious.
Take care.
Bob
I too have been after a Maximum gun for a while...I ended up with a barrel for my Contender.
If you run across some good load recipies, I'd sure apprecaite you thinking of me!!
Did you ever get the letter on that pre-27 I sent your way? Just curious.
Take care.
Bob
Peter M. Eick
Member
Everything I have read indicates the contender can take just about any powder so you just have to experiment. On the Ruger I will have to stay with things like 4227 and heavy bullets to avoid the top strap cutting. I emailed on the pre-27 and it was a blank number in the database so no letter. I thought I emailed you on that but maybe it got spam filtered somewhere.
I will let you know what my workups find. I have a pound of imr 4227 and h4227 to play with when I get home.
Thanks again for the pre-27.
I will let you know what my workups find. I have a pound of imr 4227 and h4227 to play with when I get home.
Thanks again for the pre-27.
VonFatman
Member
Wow, a blank huh? Weird. Is that a normal thing?
Bob
Bob
Here is what silhouette shooter using Freedom Arms 353 (large frame 357) told me; he was shooting 200 gr GC bullet over the top dose (we are talking about rifle pressure level!) of slow burning double base ball powders and he noticed erosion of barrel forcing cone. He switched to IMR 4227 and further erosion stopped.
One of the theories is that such erosion (excluding that nonsense of using 110 and 125 gr bullets trying to make 357 Swift) is the consequence of higher burning temperature some double base powders have. Other one is that some additives are creating such erosion/sand blasting effect on top strap and forcing cone Most likely all above when combined with very high pressure.
None of my revolvers have top frame flame cutting but I don’t push them too hard. Some very light marks yes, but I wouldn’t call it “cutting” after seeing the pictures what could be done on 357 maximum. Also, using steady diet of full power loads could create top flame cutting on any Magnum revolver; I had seen it on 357 and 44 magnums. If I have 357 Supermag, I’ll use 180-200gr bullets and single base powders like IMR 4227 and Hodgdon H4227 or slower. Important note; be aware that IMR 4227 and Hodgdon H4227 are NOT interchangeable. H4227 is the fastest of so called “Hodgdon Extreme” rifle powders, see http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page4.php . These powders are practically insensitive to the temperature variation, something that MUST be taken in consideration when reloading top level loads for 357 Maximum, see http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page2.php#top .
For a while, I was thinking of getting 357 Maximum SBH. There are few in my area gathering the dust in lockers. However, after considering my personal preference for Bisley grip, comparing ballistic charts and listening other silhouette shooters, I settled on 41 Bisley as the optimum caliber/revolver combination for practising. If I want a “boomer”, I load 45-325 at about 1150 fps, might try to reach 1200-1250 fps to see what kind of accuracy I am going to get. Just my personal view…
One of the theories is that such erosion (excluding that nonsense of using 110 and 125 gr bullets trying to make 357 Swift) is the consequence of higher burning temperature some double base powders have. Other one is that some additives are creating such erosion/sand blasting effect on top strap and forcing cone Most likely all above when combined with very high pressure.
None of my revolvers have top frame flame cutting but I don’t push them too hard. Some very light marks yes, but I wouldn’t call it “cutting” after seeing the pictures what could be done on 357 maximum. Also, using steady diet of full power loads could create top flame cutting on any Magnum revolver; I had seen it on 357 and 44 magnums. If I have 357 Supermag, I’ll use 180-200gr bullets and single base powders like IMR 4227 and Hodgdon H4227 or slower. Important note; be aware that IMR 4227 and Hodgdon H4227 are NOT interchangeable. H4227 is the fastest of so called “Hodgdon Extreme” rifle powders, see http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page4.php . These powders are practically insensitive to the temperature variation, something that MUST be taken in consideration when reloading top level loads for 357 Maximum, see http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page2.php#top .
For a while, I was thinking of getting 357 Maximum SBH. There are few in my area gathering the dust in lockers. However, after considering my personal preference for Bisley grip, comparing ballistic charts and listening other silhouette shooters, I settled on 41 Bisley as the optimum caliber/revolver combination for practising. If I want a “boomer”, I load 45-325 at about 1150 fps, might try to reach 1200-1250 fps to see what kind of accuracy I am going to get. Just my personal view…
Peter M. Eick
Member
Bob,
The blank just means that probably the clerk who was writing in the serial numbers just miswrote the number. It appears to happen occasionally from what I can tell reading the comments of Roy on the matter.
Onty,
Thanks for the information about the loads and 4227 information. I have bought a pound of each version of 4227 and will give them both a try. I have heard the while the H4227 is being discontinued, I have also heard that IMR-4227 will morph in H4227 over time so it will be called IMR-4227 but will actually be H4227. Weird, but I have read several posts on that topic now.
The blank just means that probably the clerk who was writing in the serial numbers just miswrote the number. It appears to happen occasionally from what I can tell reading the comments of Roy on the matter.
Onty,
Thanks for the information about the loads and 4227 information. I have bought a pound of each version of 4227 and will give them both a try. I have heard the while the H4227 is being discontinued, I have also heard that IMR-4227 will morph in H4227 over time so it will be called IMR-4227 but will actually be H4227. Weird, but I have read several posts on that topic now.
i have a blackhawk and a rechambered nef single shot in the 357 max cal.most fun you could have with your clothes on!! i use 180gr bullets mostly and i have been experementing with a new powder.there is a surplus powder on the market called wc-820,its a powder that was used in the 30cal carbine.it works great in mag cal handguns.i was using h110 but i bought an 8lb cont of wc-820 for $60 and loaded a few rounds with 18.5 grs and a 180gr jacketed bullet with a small rem rifle primer.i test fired about 10 loads this morn out of my nef rifle while sighting in a new scope,at 50yds i put 3 bullets in the same hole.it was 100 degrees today so i didnt want too walk any further too hang targets lol.i will put some of these loads over my buddies chrono the first chance i get,my old load was 20.3 grns of h110 and the 18.5 grns of wc-820 has a little more recoil so i believe it is moving a little faster.hope this helps
Nice find on the Blackhawk! I'd have a hard time passing a 357 max up if I found one.
I'm not a super accurate shot but I've found gripping the revolver high up helps me. I've got an old model 357 mag and I basically hold it so that the hammer is just touching the top of my hand when cocked. I do have small hands so I've never tried putting my pinky underneath.
I'm not a super accurate shot but I've found gripping the revolver high up helps me. I've got an old model 357 mag and I basically hold it so that the hammer is just touching the top of my hand when cocked. I do have small hands so I've never tried putting my pinky underneath.
BluesBear
member
You mean like S&W does with some of their Scandium revolvers like this one owned by THR member HighVelocity?Crosshair said:
Crosshair
Member
Ya learn something new every day. That would be perfect in a .357 Maximum.
BluesBear
member
My thoughts exactly.
But then I was told it couldn't be done.
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