.357 Sig Speculation

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by WrongHanded, Mar 9, 2021.

  1. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Whilst I haven't done an exhaustive search, it would appear that the panic buying has resulted in the disappearance of .357 Sig pistols from the market place. Obviously, pistols in other cartridges have also been snapped up. But .357 Sig being a rather unpopular cartridge leads me to wondering:

    Who bought them? Was it first time gun owners, desperate for some kind of handgun, who didn't know what they were getting or didn't care? Or was it existing gun owners looking to expand their horizons regarding ammo availability?

    And if all these .357 Sig have been purchased, what does that mean for the future of the cartridge? Will it be one more mainstream, resulting in high production rates of ammo? Or will these guns just sit on shelves in closets, or the back of gun safes once everything calms down again?

    This isn't a thread about .357 Sig vs [insert cartridge], but a general musing on how increased sales of one of the least popular service cartridges might affect its future.
     
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  2. JTQ

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    I suspect there just weren't many on the shelves to be bought, and since just about everything was bought, and the guns and round aren't that popular, the manufacturers simply put their efforts into producing more popular guns in more popular calibers.

    I can't walk into my local gun store today and pick up incredibly common/popular guns like a Glock G17/G19/G34, because they aren't available. Demand is high and I'll assume production and distribution are impacted by the world-wide pandemic. That there aren't any G31/G32 on the shelves doesn't surprise me.

    I don't think the .357 SIG is a dead cartridge, but I don't expect it to suddenly become more popular than it has been. It's a niche round.
     
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  3. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I speculate ;) they adhered to the following:
    The caliber should start with a "4" as in 40 ... excepting that it is 10mm.
    However, it is acceptable for the caliber to start with a 3 if it is followed by 5 and then 7 ... 357 Sig. :D 510gxc.jpg
     
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  4. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    I doubt that the 357 SIG will gain in popularity, and I doubt that the manufacturers will start pumping out more SIGs. I think that they will concentrate on making more 9s and maybe 45s to fill the vacuum.

    But if and when this is all over, you might be able to pick up a 357 SIG cheaply. Maybe I'll add to the corral. :)
     
  5. BreechFace

    BreechFace Member

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    Around here 357sig was on the shelves the longest. Obviously, due to lack of demand. In my opinion 357sig is on life support.

    Neat round but I bet that it follows the same path as 10mm a flurry of excitement in the beginning met by inadequate commercial loadings; followed by adoptance by reloaders to gain the performance it needs to stand out and thus creating a niche group of shooters that create a cult like following that eventually spills over into the common joe wanting one again.
     
  6. kcofohio
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    kcofohio Contributing Member

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    I agree, if it wasn't for reloading, I doubt I would be into the cartridge. Even in good times, the cheapest I could find of factory ammo was over $25/50. That's local dollars. :)
     
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  7. Horskinator

    Horskinator Member

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    I picked up a 357 sig to expand.... I also grabbed a Rem Tac14 and a CZ Scorpion as well....
     
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  8. Otto

    Otto Member

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    357 Sig is primary for the LE market. Most civilians couldn’t care less about a 125 gr bullet zipping along at 1430 ft/s. And besides, they want $10 a box ammo not $20.
    Lastly, 40S&W pistols can usually be converted to 357Sig negating the need to buy a new gun.
     
  9. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    All true. But not what the thread is about. There were .357 Sig pistols on the market prior to the panic buying, and now they are sold. Whoever has bought them needs to buy ammo for them, reload it themselves (not common), convert the gun to another cartridge, or not shoot the gun.

    So the question is, in the long term, will .357 Sig ammo be in higher demand? If so, once production catches up, the cartridge will come down in cost, and potentially gain popularity. Or maybe it won't.
     
  10. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    My crystal ball says it will be less popular than it was five years ago. It was developed by SIG so they could have a round with their name on it, and for some LE units who thought they had a need for the round. Eventually, nearly all of them determined there were other rounds they preferred and dropped the .357 SIG.
    I suspect most of those were bought simply because that was all that was left on the shelves, when everything else was already sold. Most of those owners bought the only 50 rounds of ammo they will ever buy for the gun during their initial purchase. The remainder of the purchasers, bought it for the novelty. They'll shoot it a bit to check out the round, and then they'll go back to their regular cartridges, 9mm, .40S&W, and 45Auto.
     
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  11. Ohen Cepel
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    Ohen Cepel Contributing Member

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    I think SIG has even dropped it from their line up. Maybe, if we end up with a 10rd federal mag limit it will get some life back into it.

    I like the round but never got into it, always seemed a bit too niche for me (and I have lots of odd stuff already).
     
  12. LightninST

    LightninST Member

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    9mm,380acp, 40S&W, and 45Auto Will stay the auto loading winners :thumbup:
    357Sig &10mm will hang on only with reloaders and a niche group of shooters :cool:
     
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  13. riverats

    riverats Member

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    No
    No
    Probably won’t

    That said, though production of .357 SIG pistols has fallen off, the round is hardly on life-support & it’s not going to be going away any time soon.

    For 20-plus years, gun writers & other know it alls harped incessantly about the demise of the 10mm & well, just look at where that round is at today. While no one can guess if the .357 SIG will ever experience a 10mm-like renaissance, I do know that it will not be going away.

    If a cartridge & for that matter, a firearm was an effective cartridge/firearm 30, 40 or 50 years ago, then it’s going to remain a good & effective cartridge/firearm today! If this wasn’t the case, big box & gun store shelves would be collapsing beneath the weight of unsold boxes of .22lr, .380, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, ?etc., etc...) of ammo

    Not everyone’s world revolves around the polymer-framed 9mm...

    Oh yea, and you’d be surprised at the LARGE number of .357 SIG shooting/toting folks who roll their own rounds.
     
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  14. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    If 357 Sig ammo and a 357 Sig hand gun existed in the same general vicinity...so same town. Both would sell fast in today’s market. Same for any ammo gun cartridge combo.

    If a 357 Sig handgun and ammo existed in the same store. Then sold it would be.....to the same person most likely.
     
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  15. tommy.duncan

    tommy.duncan Member

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    P226 357sig.jpg I have 2 357 sig pistols. My EDC P226 is in 357sig. I love the caliber!!
    Love the holy grail meme!!

    Edited to show old faithful!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  16. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    Have a 5.3" LWD .357 Sig Bbl. for my Glock G23.4, and a case ea. of both Hornady Custom 147 gr. XTP and S&B 140 gr. TFP.

    As it is for field/trail shooting... a lifetime supply.

    Other than that... would rather shoot the .40/180 gr..




    GR
     
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  17. JimKirk

    JimKirk Member

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    I shoot my Glock 31 quite often .... I can reload it for almost the same cost as 9mm(a couple extra grains powder) .... I shoot the XTP & RMR MPR.... same as 9mm ....primer is same ....

    I also have a 9mm conversion barrel ...I can shoot 9mm ....same 357 magazine .... feeds as good as 9mm magazines....

    If I had to buy factory ammo ....I probably wouldn't shoot near as much as I did .... But I enjoy reloading and the 357 SIG is just another cartridge to reload ...

    I am not sure how the market for 357 SIG would be after this all settled out ....
     
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  18. ozarkhillbilly

    ozarkhillbilly Member

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    I get the OP's post and I believe the 357sig will get a SMALL BUMP for a few years from the covid19/anti-freedom politicians. I do believe it will be regulated to a niche round like the 32acp, and 44mag but greater than 41mag 38super, 454casull, 500S&W, 460S&W, 327mag and a dozen others i could name.
     
  19. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I bet a bunch of them were folks, at least early in the rush, who always had planned on getting one but started worrying about availability and decided to finally get one.

    But ... what about .38 Super?
     
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  20. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    giphy.gif

    It was (is) a good meme, had to be brief. :)
     
  21. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    The 357 Sigs were all bought by the seasoned gun owners who wanted:

    34c9e08844e54c60c3a836adc0e9ecd2.gif
     
  22. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Perhaps, but those niche shooters can still buy a 10mm pistol from SIG and a whole bunch of other makers.

    There are still a couple of companies that offer a .357 SIG pistol, but SIG isn't one of them. I suspect that is an indication of where the cartridge is headed.
     
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  23. upptick

    upptick Member

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    [QUOTE And if all these .357 Sig have been purchased, what does that mean for the future of the cartridge? Will it be one more mainstream, resulting in high production rates of ammo? Or will these guns just sit on shelves in closets, or the back of gun safes once everything calms down again?.[/QUOTE]

    In the midst of the most recent period of panic-buying, which resulted in virtually all handgun ammunition being cleaned out at my LGS, I noticed that there was still a supply of 10mm and .357 Sig. Hence, I bought a Glock 20 and a .357 Sig conversion barrel for my SP2022. And a bunch of ammo for both. I probably won't shoot much of either, but I won't be without guns that can fire any ammunition that's available.
     
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  24. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    In the midst of the most recent period of panic-buying, which resulted in virtually all handgun ammunition being cleaned out at my LGS, I noticed that there was still a supply of 10mm and .357 Sig. Hence, I bought a Glock 20 and a .357 Sig conversion barrel for my SP2022. And a bunch of ammo for both. I probably won't shoot much of either, but I won't be without guns that can fire any ammunition that's available.[/QUOTE]

    Even that was gone around here in about 5 minutes this past year. There was some .40 on the shelves for about a week after everything else vanished.
     
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  25. zaitcev

    zaitcev Member

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    Both.

    Remember that in the past ammo shortages it was a coping strategy to rely on boutique calibers to carry one over while 9mm was gone from the shelves. So, experienced people who expected this shortage to be like the ones before, bought boutique caliber handguns with an expectation of the ammunition remaining available. They were wrong, but they had no way to know and their experience played against them.

    The novices bought them too. They bought everything. I remember there was a period when a number of people asked in online forums "I see this great deal on Walther Creed, should I get it?" (and many more just picked it before asking). But that is a gun that ceased production in 2016! Clearly, Walther saw a chance to release their remaining stocks of Creed at bargain prices. Beginners snapped those Creeds. And they snapped the .357 guns.

    And I'm sure some remembered that Jack Wilson used a P229 in .357.

    The latter.

    The fundamental problems of .357 SIG haven't gone anywhere. This is how Chris Baker of Lucky Gunner put it:

    "I was reading an article published back in the Fall of 2000 by Dr. Gary Roberts, who is probably the most well-known wound ballistics researcher active today. He was sharing the results of a .357 Sig gelatin test he performed at the California Highway Patrol Academy range. This was printed in the Wound Ballistics Review, which was a scientific journal intended for hardcore ballistics nerds, so it tends to be pretty dry and technical most of the time. But at the end of this one article, Dr. Roberts breaks into editorial mode and he says,

    "“Compared to a 9mm, the .357 Sig has a decreased magazine capacity, more recoil, as well as greater muzzle blast and flash, yet at best it offers no gain in bullet penetration and expansion characteristics. What is the point of this cartridge?”"

    Emphasis mine. Copied from transcript of a August 2018 video.

    The .357 is already dead. Of course, it will stay around like 7.62 Tokarev, but I do not see it staging a comeback like the 5.7 did. Fundamentally there's nothing good about it, only drawbacks, so it will remain "a hot round for cool dudes", to borrow from LifeSizePotato.

    But it's interesting to watch the struggle of .380 Auto. That cartridge has peaked around 2016, when about 25% of new guns sold were in that caliber. Its share declined since and was at 17% before the pan-de-nic. I expected that the strain on manufacturers, who struggle to meet the demand for 9mm guns would crush it completely. But then, after the pandemic started to wane, SIG introduced P365 in .380. Isn't it interesting?

    {Footnote: This post also appears at my blog.}
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
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