.357 SIG vs. 40 cal

[Autolycus]

Oirginally posted by MattXYZ: Face it, 9mm is DEAD! Police use is waining greatly, and the military KNOWS its puny. Only in the ghetto does it still reside with its once reputation. The .357SIG IS a +P+9mm, but can shoot them all day long. Its the MOST accurate loading ever, see for yourself. As far as wear, get a SIG Sauer, like my p226. Its built to take that kind of abuse, and does. .357 SIG rules, or at least thats what I think, and this Blackwater junkie told me. At the time this ancient thread was started, .357SIG could of been expensive to shoot, with limited ammo choices. But FF to now, late summer of '07, Its just as cheap as any other. The .357SIG wounds like a .45 in ballistic gel, with a premium hp.

9mm maybe dead (that is very debatable) but the truth of the matter is this thread was long dead until you brought it back to life.

 

[GJgo]

I tend to look at the debate in more of a "right tool for the right job" fashion. I have a Glock 23 (.40) that is my CCW. 13 rounds. I used to take a SP101 .357 (5 rounds) as my carry weapon when I went up into the mountais for hiking/ fishing/ etc. Traded it in, and got (among other things) a Glock 32 barrel (.357 SIG) so I could swap out with the 23. Now I have basically the same energy potential in the same package size with 13 rounds in my fly vest instead of 5. It is by far easier to carry than my 6 shot .41 mag was..

 

[MattXYZ]

Hey somone will read it and maybe learn a thing or two. My P226 .357SIG is almost identical to my .40 barrel as far as flash and noise. The slide operates way faster & snappier, which has awesome follow up, and double-even triple tap advantages. They also have extremely consistent velocity's. I just like the round a lot, probably my favorite. Gets on my nerves when folks compare it to a 9mm+P+, that's all. Its kinda like an extension of the .40 and a good one; like when you get under 135gr, it changes over to .357SIG. Except Pow'rballs, personally I don't care for 135gr .40, the projectile is so short and the expanded HP petals seem to stretch so thin cause of so little material to work with...Though the COR-BON DPX is only 140gr and I love that loading, it is a fine one.

 

[41magsnub]

This is only slightly off the topic... balistically how does a .357 sig compare to a .357 magnum? I understand this is an apples to oranges comparision, this is purely academic.

With the limited choices in .357 sig and not being a hand loader my next gun is likely to be an M&P .40 but I am curious how a .357 sig compares to my Security Six in .357 Mag.

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

Face it, 9mm is DEAD! Police use is waining greatly, and the military KNOWS its puny. Only in the ghetto does it still reside with its once reputation.

While I'm not a huge 9mm fan, it's far from dead kid. Sadly a deputy in FL was just killed with one yesterday. I think he'd disagree with you.

I'll confess that I'm kind of a one caliber kind of guy. I prefer to shoot the same caliber and round in practice, as in competition, and day to day carry. I have set myself in on the .40 S&W 165 grain. Only variation is that I practice with White box or winclean and I carry Doubletap HP All .40 S&W 165 gr.

That having been said, I'm being eaten alive in USPSA by 9mm guys as I shoot in production. I have been thinking about using a 9mm for USPSA, but I can't quite bring myself to do it.

 

[Crunker1337]

"This is only slightly off the topic... balistically how does a .357 sig compare to a .357 magnum? I understand this is an apples to oranges comparision, this is purely academic."

.357SIG was actually built to be a .357 Magnum of autopistols, and they say that with the right bullet weight and loading it can arguably achieve that.

I personally think .357SIG is better than .40S&W - much more velocity, almost as much hitting power. Same capacity. Improved penetration.

 

[marley]

I love my g32. It is loud. People do notice. The va state police and the richmond pd both use sigs in .357 sig. I figure I can't go but so wrong with that. Patrick

 

[S&W 910]

The US Secret Service and Air Marshalls use the 357 sig

If the 357 sig is trusted to protect the life of the President and airplane passengers,i trust it to protect mine,its the only round i carry

 

[gp911]

9mm is dead? What the..?

Wow, I'm not much of a 9mm fan, but last I saw it was still chambered in about 10x the firearms .357 Sig is...

I like the .357 Sig just fine, but I'm betting 9mm will still be more widely available 10 years from now. I'm betting 30 years from now .357 Sig will be about where it is now, in terms of acceptance.


gp911

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

The US Secret Service and Air Marshalls use the 357 sig

If the 357 sig is trusted to protect the life of the President and airplane passengers,i trust it to protect mine,its the only round i carry

How many actual shootings have either service had with this round if you know?

 

[hrgrisso]

SS or AM?

I only know of the one crazy guy who got shot by an Air Marshall last year. But I do know that NM State Police switched to Sigs in .357Sig and several local/big city pd's there switched to afterwards. I know that several have changed guns issued but not the caliber.

FWIW I love my 229 in .357Sig.

There was another post talking about guns being chambered for what they were designed for. I agree, unless major re-design work has happened reliability suffers.

FWIW: I love my .357Sig in Sig guns. I've also liked the Glock 32 and 33. I also like 9mm, .40 and .45. Shoot what you shoot well. Practice hard and often.

Oh and 9mm isnt' dead, I couldn't think of anything clever to say about where it was now, but "it's serving America well" only has so much punch. But I think it's enough.

 

[medmo]

The whole idea of the exercise was try to develop a pistol cartridge that fit into a double stack 9mm/40 frame which duplicated the 125gr 357 magnum load. They pretty much achieved that.

I have a 229 in 357 sig and also have a sig bbl. in 40. If you plan on owning both bbl's buy the 357 sig factory gun and then pick up the 40 cal bbl. There are a lot more 40 bbls on the market and they are less expensive.

Having shot the gun a lot with both bbls I found the 357 sig bbl to be significantly more accurate shooting 125gr GDHP then any of the variety of 40 cal bullet weights/brands. I don't think this proves that the 357 sig is more accurate then the 40cal. It just means that the particular 357 sig bbl I have shoots more accurate then the 40 cal bbl.

I'm glad I have both because I can swap out to the 40 bbl when I plan on shooting a lot of factory ammo. I read through all of the threads and noticed a lot of animosity towards the round. The 357sig is definitely not a 9mm +p+. It isn't a 40 cal with a light bullet either. If you plan on owning one and plan of shooting a lot of factory ammo then prepare to shell out a few more bucks or get a 40cal bbl to go with the gun.

 

[gandog56]

I have both 357 Sig and 40 S&W barrels for my Sig P229! I love them both. So I don't have to choose. But I would say this. If you don't reload get the 40. More types of ammo available at the stores and a lot less expensive.

 

[gandog56]

"This is only slightly off the topic... balistically how does a .357 sig compare to a .357 magnum? I understand this is an apples to oranges comparision, this is purely academic."

Allegedly, SIG shied away from calling its new cartridge a nine-millimeter-anything for fear of public rejection of the round. Instead, the new cartridge was dubbed a "357" in order to highlight its purpose: to duplicate the performance of 125-grain .357 Magnum loads fired from 4-inch barrelled revolvers, except in a cartridge designed to be used expressly in an autoloader platform.

 

[jaholder1971]

This is only slightly off the topic... balistically how does a .357 sig compare to a .357 magnum? I understand this is an apples to oranges comparision, this is purely academic.

With the limited choices in .357 sig and not being a hand loader my next gun is likely to be an M&P .40 but I am curious how a .357 sig compares to my Security Six in .357 Mag.

IMHO this is the only comparison that makes sense.

Looking at Brassfetcher's site, comparing .357 125 grain loadings to .357 Sig, the Sigs appear to be within 100 fps of the .357 Magnum using 125 grain bullets.

However, you have to remember that bullet design has a lot to do with the success of the Federal and Remington 125 grain .357 loads. Both used a semijacketed hollowpoint that you'd probably never see on a bullet designed to feed through an automatic. This bullet design allowed for much more framentation/secondary missiles which seems to be no longer in vogue. Nevertheless, it's pretty much a twin.

I know for a fact that a lot of LEO's remember that back in the day, you hit a BG in the chest with a .357 125 grainer he went down more times than not. The load is a benchmark that the gunmakers have been trying to duplicate for 25 years on a semiauto platform and .357 Sig appears to be it.

 

[MassMan]

I agree with Bobarino. Buy the gun with both barrels. In fact you might be able to work a deal on the barrel when you buy it at the same time as the gun. I didn't see much difference in recoil with the 357 sig, but was concerned about the extra wear on the gun. I checked with Sig and was told I could put in a 1lb stronger spring if I was going to shoot "a lot" of 357sig rounds, but for occasional shooting the spring that came in the 40S&W gun was fine. If memory serves me right, the 40S&W has a 15lb spring and the 357sig comes with a 16lb spring, but don't quote me as my memory doesn't serve me as accurately as it once did.

 

[RustyShackelford]

.40S&W v .357sig...

I really like the .357SIG for LE/CC/protection use but from what I know the .40S&W is far more popular. With the growing problem of ammo shortages/production I could see major ammo makers offering fewer .357SIG choices .

Maybe if the USA gets out of SW Asia sooner more ammo makers will produce the .357sig loads w/o high prices.

Let's hope!

Rusty

 

[M.E.Eldridge]

Do many dealers stock .357 barrels for a Sig 226? I think I'd like to get one and give the .357 a try...

 

[pheasant slayer]

My two cents worth: I prefer the 10mm and never understood the recoil thing. It shoots very nicely in the Glock and outperforms the 40 and 357. The nine mm will kill you with one round or piss you off with 15 rounds. My old Riverside, CA cop buddies used to tell stories of shooting a perp 15 times with their Browning pistols and then struggling to cuff the guy. I would never use a nine mm for protection but Tony Spilotro's boys killed quite a few with .22 rimfires too. Your choice. 10mm rules!

 

[berettashotgun]

I have a much easier time shooting my Beretta 8357 with ranger ammo than the 40 version (8040). WAY EASIER
That said, I have shot over 100k rounds of 45 in my trips around the sun (Colt,Kimber,Para-lover,Wilson, Ruger,S&W owner), and documented 32k thru a single Glock 17.(purchased with a twin and a CASE of 33rd factory mags at wally world in the day)
Bullet weight has ALWAYS been the deciding factor for me, as in 2nd round recovery and accuracy results, a Para P-12 with 185 gold sabers or a Para P-14 with 230 h.p bullets seems to me to hit about where I'm looking. Ditto with a G17 and 124 bullets.
I'd easily take a 357 with 125 gr over a 40 with 155gr Winchester Ranger in the same handgun- ONLY for shootability reasons.
Either round would certainly put your eye out
You MUST score a hit to be rewarded with points in this game; style or flash is worthless,, caliber or projectile weight/diameter- pointless!
Being conservative with your money in life or death situations is a direct indicator of how liberal you are with your life.

 

[Richard.Howe]

Hmm...

With factory loads like the Double Tap 9mm +P running 124's at 1310 fps, and 357sig factory stuff on the order of 125's running ~1350fps (e.g. Federal Premium)...

...why would you buy the more expensive, harder-to-find, niche 357sig?

Seems like an awfully expensive and limiting 40 feet per second!

Rich

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

My old Riverside, CA cop buddies used to tell stories of shooting a perp 15 times with their Browning pistols and then struggling to cuff the guy.

Really, which buddies would these be? How many suspects in Riverside county were shot 15 times?

Have any names?

 

[Greg8098]

You hit that right on the head Ricard !!! The DoubleTap 9mm's aren't slouches by any means. I used to own a G31 and G33, but they really don't offer any more performance than 9, 40, 45, and surely not 10mm. They do however make a helluva lot of noise, and are very fun to play with at the range.


Want .357 Magnum performance ??? GET A .357 MAGNUM !!!

 

[Tang419]

I found this topic, searching for updated .357 SIG data. I love shooting the .357 SIG, no super reason behind it, I just prefer it over the .40. That being said, I have a Glock 23, and I just picked up a Glock 32 barrel from OMB for $89. I had a 32 and traded it, and have regretted it ever since. So I thought basically picking up a 2nd Glock for $89 was a good deal. For me, felt recoil is less in the .357, and point of aim is the same, so I can still practice with the .40. I just ordered some Double Tap 147gr .357 SIG ammo, so I can switch to it for carry.

147gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1250fps (4" barrel) - 14.75" / .73"

I think I will feel safe with it on my side.

 

[Jason_G]

I would go with the bigger bullet myself. You get the same capacity and a slightly bigger hole. You shouldn't pay too much attention to the whole kinetic energy thing, either. It simply doesn't matter much- at least not for handgun rounds. Temporary channels with handgun calibers are pretty much just that, at least according to what I've read and seen. Rifle rounds can get into the velocities where the "mush" factor can come into play. If you've already settled on a caliber, then you might want to start looking at the kinetic energy to maximize penetration for that particular bullet, but across the board it's not a major wounding factor when looking at modern handgun loadings for semi autos. Personally, I can't see that the .357 Sig penetrates any better in ballistic gel, so I'd have to assume it'd be a similar case in a badguy's torso. I'd like to see some tests on hard materials like 2x4 studs, car doors, etc., though.

Here:




I know it's a resurrected thread, but FWIW, I'd skip the .357 Sig unless it was for fun, and go for the .40 in 180 gr myself. I prefer the .45 though, and if I wanted more umph than that I'd go for the 10mm auto.
YMMV.

Jason