357 sig vs. 45 ACP

[Matt3357]

I realize this may not be the most applicable place but hear me out. I am looking to get a S&W M&P compact in one of these two calibers. I want this for a bed side gun, target shooting, and if I ever move to MO I will conceal carry with it. Now on a reloading stand point, what are the advantages and disadvantages? and while we are here, on any other standpoint what are the pros and cons?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[ChristopherG]

45 acp is a straightwalled pistol caliber; .357 sig is not. Straightwalled calibers are easier to load. And, .45 is a low-pressure load. Brass lasts essentially until you lose it.

You will find far fewer people reloading 357 sig; cause it's not as easy.

 

[Daniel1120]

What ChristopeherG said is exactly right. Components for 45 acp are everywhere, and so are 357 projectiles. But 45 brass is more common and cheaper. Bottle necked pistol cartridges are a different ball game. Not a bad idea, just different. Do you already reload? If so what calibers? Inf not, 45 is a good start point.

 

[Matt3357]

I reload 223, and 38 spl and 357 mag. Is 357 sig .357? If so, would bullets that work in my 357mag work for it?

Matt

 

[PA Freedom]

NO!!! The .357 Sig is actually a 9mm.

 

[snuffy]

I reload 223, and 38 spl and 357 mag. Is 357 sig .357? If so, would bullets that work in my 357mag work for it?

Matt

No. it's 357 not .357. Or put it like this, the diameter is actually the same as 9mm, .355. It's called 357 because it launches a 125 grain bullet from a semi auto handgun with the same velocity as a 4" .357 revolver. Then there's the magazine capacity, a full sized Glock can hold 15 rounds.

It IS a more difficult cartridge to reload, but not impossible. It is a bottle necked case, so you have to lube it like a rifle round. Then, you have to have the right type of bullet, a standard 9mm round nose won't work.

 

[Matt3357]

This is why I asked. I haven't done a whole lot of research yet other than looking up load data on hodgdon's website and assumed that since the bullet weights were odd that it was not the same. So basically what you are telling me is that the 357 sig is a suped up 9mm. What about cast lead in the 357 sig? Feasible?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[ny32182]

.357sig uses .355 bullets, but most 9mm round nose bullets will not work due to the short neck of the .357sig. If you seat a RN 9mm bullet in a .357sig case, you won't have enough neck tension to hold it. You need to use truncated cone or hollowpoint bullets with a relatively short ogive.

 

[snuffy]

So basically what you are telling me is that the 357 sig is a suped up 9mm. What about cast lead in the 357 sig? Feasible?

Thanks,
Matt

Yes, like this.



The 357 sig is a 40 S&W case necked down to hold .355 bullets. So yes, it is a 9mm on steroids! Nice thing about the sig is, most 40's can be converted to 357 sig by simply getting an aftermarket 357 barrel, swapping out the 40 barrel, then shooting a whole new cartridge in your 40. Mags work well with the 40 being the parent cartridge, they feed and fire well.

 

[ny32182]

Actually, if you size .40 brass into .357sig brass, you will end up with something that is slightly under length (leading to even less neck contact on the bullet to provide tension). Also, .357sig brass is slightly thicker in the web area than .40. They are not exactly the same case.

I have heard of people using resized .40, but they have to size just right to headspace on the shoulder instead of the case mouth, and they have to keep the loads on the light side. Personally I don't see the point of doing this when once fired real .357sig brass is fairly widely available at decent prices.

 

[snuffy]

Actually, if you size .40 brass into .357sig brass, you will end up with something that is slightly under length (leading to even less neck contact on the bullet to provide tension). Also, .357sig brass is slightly thicker in the web area than .40. They are not exactly the same case.

I guess I should have explained it better. I SHOULD have said "it was developed from a S&W 40 case." You are perfectly right about trying to form 357 sig cases from 40's, just meant the 40 was the basis/parent of the sig case.

 

[loadedround]

Playing devil's advocate, both rounds are acceptable for SD,and assuming you practice with your firearm, you are restricted to factory ammo. Everyone little gun shop and back woods gas stations carry 45 ACP ammo(when we shooters don't hoard it) but less likely to have 357 Sig since there is so little demand for it. It's my opinion that the 357 Sig(and the 45 GAP) will slowly fade out since neither really caught on with shooting public..another 41 Mag. Go with the 45 ACP and don't look back!

 

[snuffy]

LR is exactly right! In fact, if you go to a mega mart to buy 357 sig rounds, the minimum wage counter jokey will hand you .357 mag rounds! Most won't even stock the sigs.

As far as the 357 sig round fading away, it's performance and firepower will always have a following. In my conversion Glock, it's so much fun to switch from the mild mannered 40's to the 357 sig, what a blast,(pun intended)! No doubt it's a specialty round, but it'll be around for a while. In fact, I'd like to see it in a single shot rifle, TC encore, or H&R handi.

 

[JimKirk]

I own a Model 31 Glock and I love it. It is an accurate round and being bottle neck it feeds very well. It is like having 15 357 magnums in a pistol. True not all 9mm 125 grs work in it but there are plenty of bullets that will. It was funny that anytime I went to Walmart there was always at least two or more boxes of 357 SIG on the shelf, zero 45s or 357 mags and little of anything else. I never had a problem getting 357 SIGs. Mine shoots so well that I plan to shoot a deer with it this season. Reloading is just like a rifle round, so it is no more difficult than a rifle. It has more steps than a straight wall case. I run mine thru a carbide 40 S& W sizing die and then run it thru a 357 SIG sizing die. I spray with One Shot or other spray case lube before the 40 SW die and move straight to the SIG die. The lube makes the cases zip right thru the carbide die and takes very little effort thru the SIG die. All the other steps are just like any regular pistol round. I use Accurate # 9 and the Speer 125 gr (#4360) and get very good accurate loads.

Jimmy K

 

[loadedround]

Jimkirk: You are fortunate to find 357 Sig in Wallyworld Megastores and it's because many of us shooters are hoarding most of the common pistol cartridges along with 223 and 308 rifle ammo. People still think that Mr. Obama is going to take away or restrict our right to buy ammo. JMHO!

 

[rcmodel]

It was touched on when Snuffy said the .357 SIG was a "Blast" to shoot.

Put another way, the .45 ACP operates at 21,000 PSI, and the 357 SIG operates at nearly twice that pressure, or 40,000 PSI.

Inside your bedroom in the middle of the night, the blast would be, shall we say, more noticeable.

rc

 

[Lonely Raven]

I've been reloading .357 SIG for about 10 years now. GREAT ROUND! And I'll be buying another pistol chambered for .357 SIG and/or converting my XD .40 Tactical to .357 SIG. I sure do miss my SIG 229 in .357 SIG.

All that said, since you are considering using it for home defence, I'd seriously consider the 45 ACP over the .357 SIG. The .357 SIG is known for it's penetration...not something you really want if you have to shoot inside your home and you might miss the perp!

Beyond that, each round has it's own purpose and obviously strong followings for each. Different rounds for differing needs I feel. Research how the border patrol guys use the .357 SIG, and I think you'll understand the different between the uses of the two rounds.

 

[Lonely Raven]

I thought I'd add: for those that do want to reload .357 SIG. I highly recommend Montana Gold projectiles. They make a great Jacketed FP that's really accurate, and made specifically for .357 SIG. Not a 9mm that happens to fit a .357 SIG neck. Great practice and target rounds when you buy in bulk.

 

[GW Staar]

Gee, Matt, I shoot a .357 Mag Ruger Security Six. a 40 S&W Kahr and a .45 ACP Kimber. I've never even seen anyone shoot the 357 sig, so I can't make a judgment call on shooting that one. That said, there are a couple of things I don't like about it, and they've already been discussed adequately. 1. the bottle neck. 2. the wisdom of reducing a .40 to a 9mm. That's sort of like making a bottle neck .40 out of a .45 ACP. Why? I wouldn't want to reload that, or the 357 Sig.

I remember reading a very good treatise called, "The Case for the .45". I just found it again. http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/jh_45acp.htm

I think a wise man is one who listens to such experience.

I shoot the Ruger .357 for fun (it was my Dad's gun)
I carry the .40 Kahr because its small, light, concealable, and bigger than a 9mm.
I would carry the Kimber and do when I can. But it's big, heavy, and...I'm not. If I was smarter? I'd learn to live with the much superior Kimber. (Working on that)

Does the 357 Sig have a use? Yes, when perps start wearing armor. Both 9mm and 357 Sig penetrate body armor better than the big fat .45. Of course I'd prefer a heavy bullet .223 for that.
LonelyRaven said,

The .357 SIG is known for it's penetration...not something you really want if you have to shoot inside your home and you might miss the perp!

There's that too.