.357 snubby load

[RyanM]

I don't even have any reloading equipment yet, actually, but that's not going to stop me from asking questions.

What I want to do is eventually (once I've got the equipment) work up a .357 magnum load that fires a 158 gr LSWCHP at about 900 fps from a 2.25" SP-101. Basically a .38+P+ or light magnum level load, which replicates full-sized .38 ballistics from a .357 snubby platform. I figure this would give me the ballistic equivalent of the well-regarded FBI load, and be more controllable than fullhouse magnums.

It seems like the most logical method would be to pick a powder that's listed for both .38 and .357 loads, start at the .38 starting load (using .357 mag brass, of course), and work up from there until I get the velocity I want, or until I reach the .357 max load, whichever comes first. Then repeat the process with some different powders to see what's most accurate and consistent.

So, has anyone already worked up such a load, that they'd be willing to share?

And what are the best 158 gr LSWCHPs? All I know of are Speer and Hornady.

Do you guys think some other type of bullet work better for a reduced-recoil .357 mag load, like maybe a Rainier 158 gr plated hollowpoint, or Remington or Winchester semi-jacketed hollowpoints? Would it be possible to "bump up" the diameter of 9mm bullets without changing how they expand, and use those for a similar load that replicates full-sized 9mm ballistics?

 

[pcf]

WW231, Hodgdon Universal or titegroup, or vv N320 will all accomplish what you want.

6.3gr W231 and 5.9gr Universal are both 1000fps from a 2.5" barrel

 

[DillHarris]

I believe Roze Distribution has 158gr LSWCHP's. Their prices are pretty good, no shipping if you buy 1000 (well, maybe they changed that with gas prices). They sell Zero brand bullets. The bullets are swagged (swaged?), not cast.

 

[griz]

If you have a chrono this should be an easy task. Almost any reasonable powder will get 900 FPS before you reach mag pressures. The Speer and Hornady LSWCs are soft and work well at those fast 38 velocities, so I would stick with them instead of finding a cast, and harder, version.

I use the same bullet for a high end 38 special load. I like AA #5 or power pistol in the 38, but again in a 357 even faster (less flash) powders will work.

 

[Sunray]

"...that's not going to stop me from asking questions..." Good for you. When you're looking for a powder and bullet, you need to decide what the loads are for.
"...until I reach the .357 max load..." Nope. A .38 Special isn't just a shorter .357 mag. Nor is a .357 just a longer .38 Special. You use load data from a manual for each. The data is NOT interchangeable. You can load .357 brass to .38 specs, but if you're loading .357, use .357 data and be prepared for lots of muzzle blast out of a short barrel.
Before you do anything else, go buy a copy of The ABC's of Reloading.
"...some other type of bullet work better for a reduced-recoil .357 mag load..." For what purpose?

 

[RyanM]

"...that's not going to stop me from asking questions..." Good for you. When you're looking for a powder and bullet, you need to decide what the loads are for.
"...until I reach the .357 max load..." Nope. A .38 Special isn't just a shorter .357 mag. Nor is a .357 just a longer .38 Special. You use load data from a manual for each. The data is NOT interchangeable. You can load .357 brass to .38 specs, but if you're loading .357, use .357 data and be prepared for lots of muzzle blast out of a short barrel.
Before you do anything else, go buy a copy of The ABC's of Reloading.
"...some other type of bullet work better for a reduced-recoil .357 mag load..." For what purpose?

Purpose is to make a reduced flash, blast, and recoil load for concealed carry.

I don't understand your point in saying that .38 and .357 are different. I know that. So you're saying I can undercharge .357 brass only if it's within .38 spl specs, and it's impossible or unsafe or whatever to use loads that are between .38 spl minimums and .357 maximums?

This would be with a powder that has published data for both calibers. That pretty much automatically excludes powders like H110, which can't be reduced more than a certan % under the maximum.

I realize most manuals say not to stray outside of published loads, but that's mostly to discourage people from trying to build up a hot-rod load. I'm kind of doing the opposite here.

Look at it this way. If 4.0 gr of AA#2 (starting load 3.6 gr) is a safe .38 load for 158 gr LSWCs (14,100 PSI), and 8.0 gr (starting load 7.2 gr) of the same is likewise a safe .357 load (44,300 CUP), what exactly the problem with a charge somewhere in between? If the powder were going to "detonate" when undercharged, then the normal .38 load would be incredibly unsafe.

The .38 +P load with same powder and bullet is 4.2 to 4.7 gr. So you're saying that means 4.1 gr of AA#2 under a 158 gr LSWC is an unsafe load in a +P rated .38 or a .357 magnum, since it's technically outside the published maximums and minimums?

 

[Archie]

There is a difference in ...

the internal ballistics.

The two cases are the same, except for length. However, the extra .125" makes a difference in burning characteristics.

Loading a 'starting' .38 Special load in a .38 Special case gives a lightly loaded round. Loading a 'starting' .38 Special load in a .357 Magnum case gives a very disappointing result - sometimes a bullet lodged in the barrel. In some instances, very slow burning powder loads can be dangerous with too much airspace - your mention of H110 comes to mind.

Needless to say, a 'starting' .357 Magnum load in a .38 Special case can be greater than a .38 Special +p load. Most new guns won't blow up the first cylinderful, but will age very quickly at best.

Your concept is sound and your goal is attainable. Simplest is just to check a loading manual and see what loads will perform as you wish. I suggest you stay with .357 Magnum cases and loads, even at starting levels.


For recoil reduction, you want the lightest bullet possible. Since you are shooting a short barrelled gun, velocity tends to falter. When velocity falters, the normal answer (to maintain stopping power) is to increase the bullet weight. Round and round it goes. I'm a fan of 158 grain lead SWC(HP) bullets for defense work. I load them as fast as I can get them with accuracy.

You may have to experiment some to find what suits you best.

The work has been done about how to safely fling a bullet of "X" weight at "Y" velocity. All you have to do is figure out which combination appeals to you most.