357 vs 44 for versatility

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So my take away from this discussion is not to put much of a priority on picking up a 357 revolver. I'm surprised the 44 got so many votes. I'll spend some time either developing super light loads for the 44, or loading ammo for the 32 or maybe I'll look again at a combo gun. (I've hem-hawed around on those for years.)
 
I didn't read all the replies but my vote for versatility is the 44, although I think a 45 Colt is slightly more versatile.

Regardless, I'd still get a .357 for the simple reason being that you don't have one. If you reload, there is a lot of play there, and it takes less money to run than a 44 because it uses less lead and powder. Brass is slightly cheaper, and it is a good budget fun gun if you reload.

Keep the 44, play with the loads, but get the 357 too. Nothing like a 38 wadcutter for rabbits.
 
I've been watching this thread this week on my phone, and largely, the most disappointing aspect of the conversation really is the willingness to comment by people who haven't USED both for practical application. Once both are fielded, the gap between the 357mag and the 44mag is obvious. Both have relatively broad spans of power, but what that span means in terms of field application, or even range application is where the differentiation really becomes interesting.

Pretending the 44mag and the 357mag are in the same class just because a guy has killed deer at 50yrds with both is like pretending a Honda Civic and a Dodge Viper are equivalent, since both run the same speed limit on interstate...

If you want something for range and bunnies, and maybe something to reach 50yrds or less for the occasional deer, then you have use for a 357mag. If you're after a proper deer hunting revolver, then the 44mag is the pick. Personally, I reserve 357mag's for J-frames, as there's nothing a full size 357mag can do which I can't do with a J frame, or do better with a 44mag...
 
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It all comes down to application. Each have rolls they fill, but the only thing they have in common is the word Magnum at the end of their names.
Hands down the 44 magnum is more power.
We don't have bears down here that will eat us, but we do have gators. If you live where the hungry bears live, you need the 44 mag. Gators have bad attitudes and tend not to be friendly, but they are not as had to kill as a bear. I like to carry a 357 Mag in the field as a secondary weapon.
 
GunnyUSMC said:
It all comes down to application. Each have rolls they fill, but the only thing they have in common is the word Magnum at the end of their names.
Hands down the 44 magnum is more power.
We don't have bears down here that will eat us, but we do have gators. If you live where the hungry bears live, you need the 44 mag. Gators have bad attitudes and tend not to be friendly, but they are not as had to kill as a bear. I like to carry a 357 Mag in the field as a secondary weapon.
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Yes but just because you have a .44Mag doesn't mean you have to load it with bear loads. A good standard weight cast bullet at 1000fps will do everything the .357 will do with greater efficiency, less recoil and less muzzle blast. Using the car analogy, the .357 is like a wound-up turbo four cylinder that you have to run the piss out of to get it to do anything. While the .44 is like a lumbering V8. They might serve the same purpose (depending on load) but the V8 will do the same job with little fanfare and noise.
 
If the OP is soured on .22 due to the ammo shortage we experienced, that is understandable.

If the OP does not have a .357, it won't hurt to get one.
 
CraigC the 45 colt is slightly more versatile for the same reason the 44 is...larger case capacity and a larger diameter for heavier weight bullets at less pressure equals more power (in the right revolver). Regarding reloading it can go mild to wild just like a 44 mag.

I still think the OP should get the 357 for fun and carry the 44 for Alaska.
 
The .45 doesn't handle heavier bullets and the greater pressure the .44 can utilize results in higher velocities.
 
CraigC said:
The .45 doesn't handle heavier bullets and the greater pressure the .44 can utilize results in higher velocities.
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Actually, the .45 Colt -- as I have proven on really big game (water buffalo) can handle the 405 grain bullets. The same cannot be said for the .44 Mag -- and I did test 405 grain bullets in the .44 and they wouldn't stabilize at all. And, as I have proven on the chronograph, with a 335 grain bullet, loaded to the .44's SAAMI maximum of 36,000 PSI (and yes, I had it pressure tested), the .45 will handily outrun the .44 loaded with a similarly weighted bullet. Another benefit, is the slew of tough .454 and .460 bullets that were designed for extreme pressure and velocity (to include impact velocity). If your gun is capable, you can load it to .454 pressures -- and no, I am not condoning or suggesting this to be done, but there goes that flexibility thing again. And, well, it's bigger than the .429 -- about the same jump from the .45s to the .475s. I'm not trying to be combative, but the .45 simply has more to work with. The .44's true advantage -- and one that is considerable -- is the absolute variety of available loaded ammo wherever ammo is sold. And that, is it's true and only advantage over the .45 Colt -- modern iteration. That said, I have graduated to the .500s.....:D
 
The 44 mag is a far more versatile caliber IF YOU RELOAD. If you dont, then probably 357.
 
Example of typical 405 grain Garrett .45 Colt load at 50-yards. Totally repeatable and well, I've shot even tighter groups with this combination:

Garrett%20405%2050%20yards.jpg

405 grain .44 Mag attempted 25 yard group exhibiting major key-holing:

unspecified6A3KJ2TB.jpg

The water buffalo in my avatar fell to three of those 405 grain .45 Colt loads.....

Sorry for the thread highjacking.
 
.45 Colt is 1:16 twist. .44 mag is something like 1:36?

Back on topic: Bigger guns have more versatility. There is no 'peak' in the curve. But that doesn't mean every shooter can take advantage of that increased versatility; there definitely is a peak in that curve and lots of people peak out at .357.
 
cp1969 said:
.45 Colt is 1:16 twist. .44 mag is something like 1:36?

Back on topic: Bigger guns have more versatility. There is no 'peak' in the curve. But that doesn't mean every shooter can take advantage of that increased versatility; there definitely is a peak in that curve and lots of people peak out at .357.
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The .44 Mag is typically a 1:20 twist while the Colt 1:16. However, the .45 Colt group posted above was shot from a .454 with a 1:24 twist. That same load shoots lights-out from my .45s as well (with the faster twist rate).
 
1:36 is in leverguns. I think most factory revolvers are 1:20 but it also has to do with how long the bullet is as well.

Bw the 44 and 357 the 44 hands down. Theres mellow loads that recoil right with the 357 but its not even remotely in the same class as the 44 mag when u start pushing on the accelerator.
 
Of course if you load the .45 to the .44's pressure it will run faster. That goes without saying. However, if you're going to cut into the .45's safety margin, it is only a fair comparison to do the same with the .44Mag. If we make a fair comparison, "Ruger only" .45Colt versus full pressure .44Mag, the .44 maintains a velocity advantage. It's only when the cartridges are run at 50,000psi does the .45 begin to pull away and even then, it's not huge.

The Garrett 405gr load is 45,000psi. Must be kept in perspective or it just looks like cherry-picking data that fits the argument.

According to the Berger calculator, the Beartooth 405gr should be more stable in the .44's 1-20" twist than the 405gr .45 in the .454's 1-24" twist, at 1200fps. I'm going to test them and see. :)

What's the meplat diameter of those Garrett .45 loads? I seem to recall it being on the small side.

The jump from .45 to .475 includes a massive increase in bullet weight, case capacity and pressure. The .475 lauches a 430gr at 1350fps. This would be comparable to a 400gr .45, which only gets to 1000fps at "Ruger only" levels. Not the same thing. You have to load the .45 to 50,000psi to get comparable performance. The jump from the .45Colt to the .475 is more like the jump from the .44 to the .454. The .44 and .45 "Ruger only" are like comparing the .416Rigby and .404Jeffery. Ballistic twins, the difference in diameter is academic.
 
Well if the op had asked id take a 454 over all of them but your argument craig is kinda hinging on the “fair” thing. People have been pushing the 45 colt waaaay beyond the anemic book loads for along long time
 
So what does that mean, we hold the .44Mag to SAAMI standard pressures but the .45 can be loaded to just whatever we want? What's the point in comparing loads appropriate to a $4000 custom five-shot to a $500 factory .44Mag? Why compare loads with a 50% safety margin to those with 100%? No point in comparing apples to mangoes. 99% of these discussions are comparing standard pressure .44Mag to "Ruger only" .45Colt. So the fact that 36,000psi .45 loads exceed 36,000psi .44 loads is irrelevant. There's no voodoo here, the data doesn't lie. If you compare maximum loads in both cartridges with comparable bullets, the result is that the .44Mag maintains a velocity advantage across all bullet weights. At the very least they're the same. Change a variable for one cartridge it's only valid if you change it for both. Seems to me that some folks made up their mind a long time ago and won't be swayed by the facts.
 
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D.B. Cooper said:
Cabela's, Sportsman's BassPro, etc.

We haven't recovered from the drought, yet, up here in Alaska.
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As a (recently) former resident, I can attest to just how bad it got and how much it puts you at a disadvantage not to be able to order ammo online. Fortunately, I was able to get 3 bricks out of a large shipment of .22LR received by Alaska Custom Firearms during the worst of it. It is disappointing to hear that things still aren't back to normal.
 
CraigC said:
So what does that mean, we hold the .44Mag to SAAMI standard pressures but the .45 can be loaded to just whatever we want? What's the point in comparing loads appropriate to a $4000 custom five-shot to a $500 factory .44Mag? Why compare loads with a 50% safety margin to those with 100%? No point in comparing apples to mangoes. 99% of these discussions are comparing standard pressure .44Mag to "Ruger only" .45Colt. So the fact that 36,000psi .45 loads exceed 36,000psi .44 loads is irrelevant. There's no voodoo here, the data doesn't lie. If you compare maximum loads in both cartridges with comparable bullets, the result is that the .44Mag maintains a velocity advantage across all bullet weights. At the very least they're the same. Change a variable for one cartridge it's only valid if you change it for both. Seems to me that some folks made up their mind a long time ago and won't be swayed by the facts.
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Ya dont have to have a 4k 5 shot. Any ruger 45 colt bisley or blackhawk will do. Plus u can run up over 40k psi in either cal in either gun want or a redhawk/super redhawk and the 45 will outpace the 44
 
I wont argue how much itmatters or if it outstrips the loaded ammo availability argument but 45vs44>357 mag.
 
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