.357 wadcutter loading problem

[IlikeSA]

Having recently shot some S&B 38 special wadcutters, I ordered 500 MBC double ended coated wadcutters sized .358. I run a Lee turret press with Lee .357 dies. I am having some issues loading them.

I am using 3.5 grains of Titegroup in a .357 case, and started loading them long (1/8 sticking out), obviously finding they would not go into the chamber. As I slowly started pushing them further in, I found that they bulged the case so that it would not fit into the chamber. The case with the long loading will go in almost all the way, the standard loading (flush with the case mouth) goes in approximately 1/3 of the way. Any suggestions for changing the die, OAL, or other ideas would be appreciated.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Pictures?

I had a similar issue with Hornady dies, but it was loading long bullets in .38spl cases. My solution was getting a set of Redding Dual Ring resizer dies...but you might not want to spend that much

 

[ArchAngelCD]

HBWC are supposed to be loaded flush with the case mouth but not the DEWC bullets you bought. You put a light crimp on those in the crimp groove just off the end of the bullet. Why would you seat them further in the case? If the ammo won't fit in the cylinder it's possible you are not sizing your cases correctly. Are the dies adjusted to size the entire case?

Yes, pictures will help us help you.

 

[springer99]

Yes, more pictures will help. What gun are they being fired in? FWIW, I load this same .358 sized DEWC in my 38Spl with great results. I do seat them with just about 1/16" protruding from the case with a very light roll crimp. Since that's a shorter case than your .357, I doubt it's a problem with internal case taper.

 

[Walkalong]

The lead DEWC should be seated to crimp into the crimp groove. Did you crimp? Is the case moth in the crimp groove? Any chance some got over crimped? What do the throats measure?

I have loaded a bunch of DEWCs with standard dies over the years, and never had that problem, but it has been in .38 Spl cases. I have loaded plated DEWCs in .357 brass, but not lead ones. Chambers been cleaned out lately?

Also, .357 brass is a bit thicker.

 

[IlikeSA]

I kept fiddling with the die and eventually got it to go in with a fresh piece of brass. I have loaded six now with a small portion of the wadcutter sticking out, but they easily drop in/drop out of the cylinder, and the cylinder rotates easily. I hate adjusting dies.

 

[Reefinmike]

As I slowly started pushing them further in, I found that they bulged the case so that it would not fit into the chamber. The case with the long loading will go in almost all the way, the standard loading (flush with the case mouth) goes in approximately 1/3 of the way. Any suggestions for changing the die, OAL, or other ideas would be appreciated.

Why not just use a lee factory crimp die? That will solve all of your problems by squeezing that bullet down smaller than .358". We all know how well undersized bullets shoot:banghead:

 

[GooseGestapo]

What make brass are you using? Sounds like the brass is thick.
Also mike the bullets to make sure they are indeed .358".

 

[Reloadron]

These should be the bullets you have and are loading. Once loaded into a case they should look like this:



You want a gentle roll crimp right in that first groove. These bullets do have a top and bottom and you want the pretty side out. My image is 38 special loads but you should have no issues with .357 Magnum brass either.

If the revolver you are shooting them in has recently had 38 Special loads fired in it make sure the cylinder is clean and not line or rim remains from the 38 Special cartridges. I had that issue with my Model 19 making it difficult to load and extract full size 357 Magnum cartridges.

Ron

 

[mdi]

I had a similar problem in '89. I was loading DEWC, .358", in Remington +P nickel brass. Deep seated, the bullet was fat enough, and the case walls thick enough that some cartridge OD would be tight in the chambers. I believe I seated the bullets shallower to lessen the case bulge (+P brass is no thicker than "normal" brass but case walls are tapered towards the case mouth so deep seating would involve thicker walls). Another help, IIRC was using Winchester brass. I'm using a Lee mold that drops a 150 gr. DEWC with a crimp groove near the top end of the bullet. I still seat the bullets to this depth, crimp groove, with no problems.....

 

[javelinablanco]

Why not just use a lee factory crimp die? That will solve all of your problems by squeezing that bullet down smaller than .358". We all know how well undersized bullets shoot:banghead:

I have to agree with Mike on this one...
The Lee Factory Crimp Die should solve chambering issues due to case bulge from bullet seating. I ran into a similar issue when seating some MBC 180gr RNFP with a 18 brinell rating. When using a bullet that seats that deep, you should take into account the case taper moving toward the rim. Running through the FCD should resolve the issue. When I loaded the above mentioned combination I felt the die working the slight bulge out. I believe that the DEWC you are working with come standard with a 12 brinell rating, which should make for easier working through the FCD.

 

[vaalpens]

I had a similar issues with the MBC coated DEWC bullets. Not all of them failed to chamber, but I would say about 5 out of 500. I only loaded these in 38 special though.

The way I resolved the issue was to use the Lee FCD for crimping. This solved the chambering issue for me. I load on a single stage and could feel when the seating was very tight, and when the Lee FCD did some re-sizing.

For now I am not buying any more DEWC since it seems a bit of a pain to load. They are fun to shoot, so maybe in the future I will try another brand.

 

[RedHawk357Mag]

I have come across this a time or two. The surest cure I found for deep seated bullets was relatively newer RP 357 brass. The surest way to run into chambering issues was to use Super X brass. Thinking my Super X was all nickled as well. Next if I didn't pay extra attention to seating the bullet straight I could get a hiccup with chambering. Also I shoot a large amount of 38 special as I got a large amount of 38 brass. If I don't do due diligence with cylinder cleaning 357 wad cutters will hang up. With all that said I have more wad cutter molds than other bullet types combined. As a side note to the side note I have a bushel basket of RemUmc 38 wad cutter brass. I like wad cutters.

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[IlikeSA]

Redhawk 357 and MDI, the brass I had an issue with was Remington nickel plated. I am retiring the brass from hot loads as some of it has developed cracks in the case mouth. The brass I am reloading now is mixed headstamps from Winchester and R-P, standard brass. I am loading it in a 357 Redhawk as well.

Javelinablanco, thanks for the heads up on the MBC 180 grainers, I bought 100 of each to try out sometime as well.

Reloadron, the ammo I loaded looks very similar to yours now.

 

[Mauser69]

I have to agree with Mike on this one...
The Lee Factory Crimp Die should solve chambering issues due to case bulge from bullet seating. I ran into a similar issue when seating some MBC 180gr RNFP with a 18 brinell rating. When using a bullet that seats that deep, you should take into account the case taper moving toward the rim. Running through the FCD should resolve the issue. When I loaded the above mentioned combination I felt the die working the slight bulge out. I believe that the DEWC you are working with come standard with a 12 brinell rating, which should make for easier working through the FCD.

Man, did you ever miss the boat on this one - that post you are agreeing with was being VERY sarcastic about the DAMAGE the FCD typically does to rounds loaded with lead bullets. Many of us believe that the FCD should never Never NEVER be use on lead bullets because it will swage them too small and thus tend to cause very bad leading.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Mauser69, I'm glad you said it because I didn't want to break the news!

 

[mdi]

The way I resolved the issue was to use the Lee FCD for crimping. This solved the chambering issue for me. I load on a single stage and could feel when the seating was very tight, and when the Lee FCD did some re-sizing.

Yep, and you could just size the bullets down another .002" before seating. When using an FCD in this manner you are just sizing down a bullet that's already in a case...

 

[cfullgraf]

I had a similar issues with the MBC coated DEWC bullets. Not all of them failed to chamber, but I would say about 5 out of 500. I only loaded these in 38 special though.

Probably those cases that would not chamber had too much crimp due to the case being too long or the wall thickness was too thick for the bullet down in the case.

The latter can happen if you use mixed head stamped cases as different manufacturers may have made cases to slightly different specs.

I load wadcutters for plinking with mixed head stamps and I'm too lazy to trim them all to the same length. I then end up with 5 to 8 per thousand that will not chamber. Most will not chamber due to a case wall thickness problem as taper crimping the round has done away with most of the ever crimp problems associated with roll crimps.

I do not fret it, just take them home and run only those through the Lee FCD handgun crimp die. Those errant cartridges shoot fine the next time they go to the range.

It is about the only application of the Lee handgun FCD that I find useful. Otherwise, I feel it is a solution looking for a problem.

If I was shooting competition, I'd be a bit more anal retentive about the ammunition and would not create cartridges that would not chamber or need the Lee FCD die.

I do not find wadcutters any more or less difficult to seat in a case than any other cast bullet. Have the right seater punch and put the right flare into the case mouth and they load just fine.

 

[Hanshi]

It's correct that shooting .38spl in a magnum cylinder can result in a crud ring just in front of the case. Magnum cases then often go in with protest. Yes, make sure the chambers are clean. Personally, I have .357s that ONLY see .38spl wadcutters and others that see the magnum rounds. Except for hunting, I don't see much reason to shoot magnums, anyway.

 

[vaalpens]

Yep, and you could just size the bullets down another .002" before seating. When using an FCD in this manner you are just sizing down a bullet that's already in a case...

That is true, but the problem is that I only had issues with maybe a handful of bullets. The FCD did not do any resizing for 99% of them, with just a few needing some correction. These were for plinking in any case, so loosing maybe a bit of accuracy did not worry me.

 

[javelinablanco]

Man, did you ever miss the boat on this one - that post you are agreeing with was being VERY sarcastic about the DAMAGE the FCD typically does to rounds loaded with lead bullets. Many of us believe that the FCD should never Never NEVER be use on lead bullets because it will swage them too small and thus tend to cause very bad leading.

Oh geez I didn't read that last part. I feel like a total goofball lol. Oh well it's all in good conversation. Carry on.


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