Trouble with cast wadcutters

[bernie]

I have been reloading for about 30 years but am really new to casting. I have only cast one bullet style so far, it is a 148 gr .358 wadcutter from a Lee mold. Here is my problem. Using .38 special Aguila brass, if I use the wadutters it will not load in the chambers of a .38 revolver. This same brass works great with a 158 gr. cast semi-wadcutter. My 148 gr wadcutters measure at .358 just like the semi-wadcutters that I have loaded. It develops a slight bulge midway down the brass when the wadcutters are loaded. I am assuming that the Aguila brass may be slightly thicker than other brass.

What has me really confused is I am using some PPU brass and am getting the same thing happening. The brass is not too long, which is what my first thought was. The confusing thing for me on this is that the PPU brass worked fine for a couple of loadings, but has now started doing the same thing.

Any ideas on what I am doing wrong?

 

[Bill M.]

One possibility may be that they are not seated straight in the case. My Lee seating die did an awful job with wadcutters for some reason, either the shape of the bullet ram or something else. I got a different brand seating die and it loads straighter with less bulges.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Do you use the LFCD

 

[fxvr5]

It could be that the bullets need to be seated straighter.

That said, some companies used special brass for wadcutters because they are so deep in the case. Remington's wadcutter brass is identified by having two cannelures.

You have a couple options:
use only wadcutter brass.
swage the cases after loaded with a lee factory crimp die.
don't seat them so deep.

 

[MEHavey]

Remove the de-priming spindle from the sizer.
Size the loaded cartridges to the point that . . .
- The case bulge disappears
- Bullet-case section is straightened
- Cartridge fits in the cylinder again.

Not to worry......

.

 

[Texas10mm]

What machine are you loading on?

Also there is such a thing as wadcutter brass.

 

[bernie]

Using an RS5 by RCBS. Thanks for the input. I surely appreciate the knowledge here.

 

[LiveLife]

problem ... Using ... Aguila brass, if I use the wadutters it will not load in the chambers of a .38 revolver. What has me really confused is I am using some PPU brass and am getting the same thing happening.

My 148 gr wadcutters measure at .358 just like the semi-wadcutters that I have loaded. It develops a slight bulge midway down the brass when the wadcutters are loaded. I am assuming that the Aguila brass may be slightly thicker than other brass.

If the brass is rubbing around the bullet base, it could be thicker case wall bulging the brass to contact chamber wall. If thinner case wall brass don't duplicate the chambering problem, you could sort your brass or size your bullet smaller..

In the 9mm neck tension and bullet setback myth busting thread, case wall thickness was measured to be different depending on the headstamp - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

Sample 12/3/6/9 O'Clock measurements from thinner to thicker case wall (measured .200" below case mouth):

BLAZER: .011"/.012"/.011"/.010"
BLAZER: .010"/.010"/.012"/.011"
BLAZER: .012"/.011"/.011"/.012"

.FC.: .013"/.012"/.012"/.011"
.FC.: .011"/.011"/.012"/.010"
.FC.: .011"/.012"/.012"/.011"

R-P: .013"/.011"/.012"/.014"
R-P: .012"/.012"/.014"/.012"
R-P: .012"/.012"/.013"/.012"

AGUILA: .013"/.013"/.014"/.014"
AGUILA: .012"/.013"/.013"/.013"
AGUILA: .012"/.013"/.014"/.013"

WIN: .014"/.013"/.0125"/.013"
WIN: .013"/.013"/.0125"/.012"
WIN: .015"/.014"/.013"/.014"

PPU: .014"/.014"/.014"/.013"
PPU: .015"/.015"/.013"/.014"
PPU: .013"/.014"/.014"/.013"​

 

[243winxb]

Take fired brass and load. No sizing of the brass. See if it makes a different.

To much crimp can make a bulge also.

 

[JJFitch]

What size are these coming out of the Lee mold?
Wad cutters are generally swaged to .357!
Are you sizing to .357?
Smiles.

 

[Texas10mm]

What size are these coming out of the Lee mold?
Wad cutters are generally swaged to .357!
Are you sizing to .357?
Smiles.

Hmm....most CAST wadcutters are at least .358.

 

[whughett]

Hmm....most CAST wadcutters are at least .358.

I have both ,357 and .358 swaging dies.
Op didn’t say if this happens with just a specific revolver, Which may have a minus chamber spec, or several revolvers. Would help to try across several different 38’s or 357’s. Just one of those one off mysteries.

 

[JJFitch]

Hmm....most CAST wadcutters are at least .358.

Re: post #10

I should have stated "Most swaged 38 HBWC are sized .357 based on my experience"!

I measured two brands of swaged hollow base wad cutters. They are advertised as .357 and measure .357.

When casting lead I cast at .358 and size to .357 but these are not hollow base. (NOE, .358 135 grain RNFP, sized to .357) I shoot these in 38 SPL, 9mm and 38 Sup! These are very accurate and produce minimal barrel leading!)

Smiles,

 

[bernie]

It is bulged about midway down the case. I thought it might be caused by the crimp as well, so I loaded a few where all I did was remove the bell on the case mouth enough to enter the chamber and I still had the problem. It occurs in all revolvers I have tried. I will try resizing the loaded brass as mentioned earlier when I can. I just built a new bench and I am in the process of installing it and mounting my press, etc.

 

[LiveLife]

It is bulged about midway down the case. I thought it might be caused by the crimp as well, so I loaded a few where all I did was remove the bell on the case mouth enough to enter the chamber and I still had the problem. It occurs in all revolvers I have tried.

Do you get chambering problem with all headstamp brass or just with Aguila/PPU brass (that have thicker case wall)?

 

[243winxb]

RCBS has said its possible to "neck size" brass just enough to grip part of the bullet.

But no sizing may work. Just bell the case mouth, load, apply a light crimp.

The expander may need to be longer, or try a Lyman "M" die.

 

[whughett]

Why are we crimping wadcutters. ? Crimping to what there isn’t any crimping groove. Roll crimping over the flat nose or is it a design I’ve never seen. I do have a H&G wadcutter that has a small “round button” on the nose and my double ended wad cutters have beveled bases/noses that if the regular seating/ crimping die isn’t adjusted right will roll crimp over that bevel.

 

[LiveLife]

Why are we crimping wadcutters? Crimping to what there isn’t any crimping groove. Roll crimping over the flat nose or is it a design I’ve never seen.

Light Roll Crimp on .38 SPl HBWC

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...cd-guidance-sought.469815/page-3#post-6287025

 

[whughett]

Roll crimp with nothing to roll into means the brass creates a bulge however slight it’s there.
However my experience with wad cutters is basically limited to those I use in a Model 52 S&W and the round pictured would not feed.

 

[MEHavey]

This why God made sizers.
( You just thought was for resizing. )

 

[fxvr5]

The Speer manual says to, " . . . use a light roll or taper crimp to support low-pressure ignition."

 

[mdi]

A whole bunch of suggestions on how to fix your problem and I can't add much to the specific "fixes" of those already listed.

But, the ID of the case is tapered, getting thicker from the mouth to the web/case head. A .358" bullet may fit the first 25% of the case well, but as it goes deeper, the ID shrinks and the bullet bulges the case walls, also with deep seating in tight case IDs, bullet swaging often happens. BTDT in '73. Running the cartridge through a sizing die, or (God forbid) using a Lee FCD to post crimp size the cartridge will swage the bullet down. How much depends on how much the case has swelled and the bullet's original diameter, maybe for not good for clean shooting accurate ammo. If you have no issues with sizing your cast bullets post seating, these are a quick, band aid step (kinda like "if it don't fit, get a bigger hammer"). When I was dealing with bulged cases from extra deep seated bullets, I played with a few tries at a remedy. First I quit seating the wadcutters flush with the case mouths. I was using revolvers not an S&W 52 so I had a lot of OAL to play with. I don't have measurements handy, but when seated approx. 1/4" shallower the cartridges fit the chambers much easier and accuracy was not affected.

 

[tactikel]

Mei is correct, typical brass cases taper, the WC seats deeper hence the bulge. They make cases specifically for WC they have a knurled band around the case- for target shooters.

 

[forrest r]

Do yourself a huge favor and rethink what you're trying to do VS traditional wc loads.

As others have already stated your brass is too thick. Simply move the bullet out, this will do 2 things for you.
Moving the bullet out will put the shoulder of the bullet in the leade of the cylinder aiding with bullet alignment/consistent short start pressue.

Back in the 80's I started loading h&g #50 wc's this way along with only using the bottom 2 lube grooves.


I have yet to see any revolver that is mechanically correct (cylinders in spec) not shoot bugholes with wc's loaded this way.


An added bonus is that you don't get the wc crud ring/build-up at the end of the case mouths like you do with traditional wc's either seated flush or crimped in the crimp groove of the button nosed wc's.

Move your wc out and crimp at the bottom of the top lube groove and go out and have fun.