357mag vs 38spl in J-frame snubbies

[dBA]

Is there an appreciable increase in velocity when shooting 357 magnum vs 38 special from a <2" snubbie? I'm wondering if the M&P 340 has any real-world advantages over a 642.

Thanks!

 

[Glockman17366]

No...

 

[ArmedBear]

I shot an Airlite with .357s, and an Airweight with .38+Ps.

I bought the Airweight in .38Sp+P (a 642). Why spend the extra cash for something I wouldn't use in the gun (.357)?

Recently, I found a decent deal on a 2 1/8" Model 60, a stainless .357 J-frame that weighs another half a pound. I can still pocket carry it (it's about the max I'd carry that way), and I can shoot .357s in it, no problem. It's entirely controllable, and I can shoot it well. I'd use .357 in it for self-defense, no problem. In the Airlite, I'd have doubts about accurate followup shots under stress.

 

[Benelli Shooter]

The .357 will give you easily twice the muzzle energy of the .38 +P in a short barreled snub.

There is a big difference.

 

[C-grunt]

I believe someone here did some chrono testing and the .357 did have a significant increase in muzzle velocity over the .38s.

But you have to ask yourself if thats enough for the extra recoil/muzzle blast and the increase in cost.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Heres something from Stephen Camp's site on 357 vs 38 snubbies.

Make sure you read past the first paragraph.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm

 

[RatDrall]

I don't mind light .357 loads in a stainless J-frame, but in an airweight a full power load is too much.

I would get the .357, because you'll have a bit longer chamber in case a bullet jumps its crimp, which can completely jam the revolver.

 

[jfh]

In a 2" barrel revolver, the issue is not going to really be the velocity of the bullet --the 357 Magnum will out perform the 38 Special, period. The issue, as ArmedBear says, is going to be the weight--and probably the perceived recoil.

With a 158-gr. bullet, about the maximum performance I can wring out of a 38+P handloaded to maximum specs (CIP, not 38+P) in my 640 is about 850-870 fps; with a 357 case loaded to maximum with silhouette, that went about 1110-1150 fps.

A 640 weighs 23 oz. empty. I found the max-power 357 round to be shootable with a properly condiioned hand, including at a measured-rapid-fire rate (about 1 rd per second), and coming back to target.

An M&P340 weighs 13.3 oz (Scandium frame, 357); the maximum round I want to shoot from that is a 158-gr. bullet running abou 900-910 fps--e.g., to the same criteria.

A 386 Night Guard (2.5" barrel, scandium frame, 7-shot, 24.5 oz.) can be controlled much easier with its L-frame.

As a carry gun, the advantage to the M&P340 include superior frame strength, noticably better factory fit and finish, and better (front) sight options. I carry that or my 360; either one has a boot grip on it. Personally, the 640 weighs too much for pocket carry IMO--but an underarm rig is fine for it.

Jim H.

 

[Benelli Shooter]

Do you think the +P 158gr Buffalo Bore ammo is too much for an alloy 642?

 

[jfh]

Too much how so?

Too much recoil? Yes--at least if your hand is not well-conditioned and you want to be able to shoot after reloading (heaven forbid).

I've shot the BB20A in my M&P340; it produced an honest 1020 fps, IIRC. Five shots were all I wanted to do--and that was off a bench rest, at a slow pace.

BB says is it a plus-p load--but how they do it, I can' quite figure out. To do it with readily-available handloading powders boosts the pressure to somewhere around 30,000 in a 38 Special case, AFAICT.

Jim H.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I would only shoot bb from a steel revolver. I don't know how they do it either, but we tested some of their .38+P ammo and it exceeded their velocity from my 640. Recoil wasn't bad at all especially with their 125 gr.

 

[altitude_19]

I figure if it'll handle 357 (which I don't shoot) it'll last damn near forever firing 38 spl. I think if I just fire 38 +P through it, I'll never have to buy another j-frame.

 

[GRIZ22]

I don't have a 2' j frame in 357 but in a 2 3/4" Speed Six:

CCI 38spl +P 125 JHP.....830 fps/ 191 ft lbs

CCI 357mag 125 JHP......1230 fps/ 420 ft lbs

A 2" would be 25-50 fps less from my experience.

Either round easily handled in a Speed Six. Don't care for magnums in J frames as a rule but if you havbe to have one I'd get a 640 S&W or SP 101 both of which have enough bulk to help absorb the recoil.

 

[ArmedBear]

I CAN shoot .357 in a lightweight alloy snubbie. I shoot my full-house .44 handloads somewhat regularly from a Mountain Gun, among other things, and enjoy it, except for the cost vs. shooting .38 and .357 handloads.

I just have my doubts about followup shots with an Airlite. Sloppy .357 shooting is not better than accurate .38 shooting.

The 60 is just heavy enough for me to shoot .357 WELL, double-action, fast followup.

I don't think you want to be fighting against your GUN when you need to defend yourself.

 

[L-Frame]

The .357 is much more powerful than .38 in any barrel but in a lightweight/airweight gun a full power .357 feels like a bomb exploding in your hand. At least in mine. No way, never again. I shoot BB 158 +P's in my 3 inch model 60. Great load.

 

[Crowbar Muldoon]

I would imagine it all depends on the shooter. I really like to shoot .357 out of my 3" Model 60; like ArmedBear, I think the 60 is just heavy enough to do the job but I could not imagine going any lighter than the 60's 24 ounces. It bucks pretty good, no argument there, but once you get used to the blast and the flash and your hands and reflexes become conditioned, it's not as daunting as one might think to shoot accurately and well. To me, my mother-in-law's 642 loaded with .38 +P feels like a bomb going off in my hand, moreso than my 60 in .357 mode. Of course, whether or not the 60 will hold up to a lot of .357 remains to be seen, testing is in progress.

"Sloppy .357 shooting is not better than accurate .38 shooting."

Agreed.

 

[batmann]

A J frame is a handfull with .357M, not worth the extra wear and tear on the hand you get, IMHO. A .38 Spl+P is plenty good for most of what you will need a J frame for.

 

[jfh]

ArmedBear and Crowbar mention the 3" model 60 as shootable for 357 rounds--and that's true. Once you get adapted to a j-frame, this is the version that comes up as just-about-a-perfect-compact-357. It balances well, is just heavy enough to soak up the recoil, (usually) has adjustable sights, etc., etc.

However, that 3" barrel is at once its strength and its weakness--at least for CC. With that in mind, maybe ArmedBear will take my LNIB 3" 60 Pro in trade for his 2" 60....

Jim H.

 

[xxxstarmaniac]

Both the 340 & 360 are very comfortable to shoot using Corbon's 357mag Powrball. It has been tested in the 38spll here Having fired the full house 158gr loads for fun, a 125gr or less has a much reduced perceived recoil, and the powrball has next to none IMO.

 

[ArmedBear]

.357 Mag Powrball is a 100 grain bullet.

 

[xxxstarmaniac]

Yes bear it is, what does this mean?

 

[ArmedBear]

I'll let others duke it out over what is and isn't effective, but 100 grains isn't what I'd call .357 Magnum.

Not sure why Cor-Bon DPX 110 grain .38+P wouldn't be just as good.

 

[xxxstarmaniac]

Bear, the dpx 110 38sp is an xcellent round. Just pointing out that the lighter the bullet weight, the less perceived recoil, the better the follow up. These snubbies are a 2nd or 3rd backup for me, and even loaded with full house rounds for the range I would need to bring it into action (xtremely close) I have no doubts the target is the only think I would hit. Practice is important, and carrying a 38spl is an xcellent choice. Just wanted to mention some ammo I found more recoil friendly.

 

[ArmedBear]

I guess I view it in the context of price. You pay a HUGE price premium for the .357 alloy lightweights, over the .38+P guns. I see no reason to pay it, so I can shoot 100 grain bullets.

If price, weight, and size of the gun didn't matter, I'd always carry a big .44. No need for expansion, very effective as far as you can possibly hit anything with it, no question about "stopping power".

 

[xxxstarmaniac]

Agreed.