375 Winchester in Big Bore

[Onty]

I never owned lever action rifle, and since I am hunting in hilly areas, where distances could be considerable, I didn't need one, so when I was on gun shows, didn't pay attention. Years back I visited one family, and after learning that I am hunter, gentleman proudly showed me his 30-30. Rifle was Winchester, and if I am not mistaken, Model 94. More out of courtesy than of interest, I took rifle and started looking at it. I have to admit that I was impressed with fit and finish. However, since I hunt predominantly wild boars, 30-30 isn't something that I would consider as optimal choice.

This summer I was on vacation one island, and when contacted locals, I learned that they have a big problem with wild boars, even bears. They are consider as a pests there, and since hunting on them is open year around, I started thinking about going there when there is no hunting on mainland. The catch is there are many areas with quite dense bush, so bolt action rifle in 8x57, or 7x64, or 30-06 isn't the best choice. Then I recalled 375 Winchester, and looked at reloading data:

Hodgdon Reloading Data for 375 Winchester https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

200 grains JFP, velocities for H322=2,419 fps, for H4198=2,480 fps

220 grains JFP, velocities for H322=2,236 fps, for H4198=2,233 fps

If these are from 375 Winchester Big Bore, in that case this powerful round in a fast handling lever rifle would be an excellent choice.

Any thoughts or comments?

 

[Varminterror]

I don’t personally believe the premise a .30-30 is insufficient for boars and bruins to be true, and in shooting fast, often, with various action types, I’m not certain I truly find lever actions faster than bolt guns for aimed fire on the target sizes relevant for killing of anything living - but if you want an excuse to buy a Winchester Big Bore in .375, using the same cartridge case as the .30-30, then that’s your business.

The .375win certainly is capable of the task. I like the .375win ALMOST enough more than I dislike the Winchester 94 action to actually spend money for one. Maybe I’ll rebarrel my father-in-law’s 336 for it instead. It’ll be cheaper and I’ll like it more.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

From what I understand people hunt wild board with SKS's and bolt actions chambered in 7.62x39, so a 30-30 should be more than up to the task

 

[Chuck R.]

I never owned lever action rifle, and since I am hunting in hilly areas, where distances could be considerable, I didn't need one, so when I was on gun shows, didn't pay attention. Years back I visited one family, and after learning that I am hunter, gentleman proudly showed me his 30-30. Rifle was Winchester, and if I am not mistaken, Model 94. More out of courtesy than of interest, I took rifle and started looking at it. I have to admit that I was impressed with fit and finish. However, since I hunt predominantly wild boars, 30-30 isn't something that I would consider as optimal choice.

This summer I was on vacation one island, and when contacted locals, I learned that they have a big problem with wild boars, even bears. They are consider as a pests there, and since hunting on them is open year around, I started thinking about going there when there is no hunting on mainland. The catch is there are many areas with quite dense bush, so bolt action rifle in 8x57, or 7x64, or 30-06 isn't the best choice. Then I recalled 375 Winchester, and looked at reloading data:

Hodgdon Reloading Data for 375 Winchester https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

200 grains JFP, velocities for H322=2,419 fps, for H4198=2,480 fps

220 grains JFP, velocities for H322=2,236 fps, for H4198=2,233 fps

If these are from 375 Winchester Big Bore, in that case this powerful round in a fast handling lever rifle would be an excellent choice.

Any thoughts or comments?

I'm not a lever guy, I use bolt guns for everything. I also like some flexibility in my woods guns to be able to stretch it if need be. IF it were me I'd go with a bolt gun, 20" barrel in:

.358Win: Available in the awesome BLR, IF you have to have a lever gun, stats are similar to the 375, but has some reach. BLRs also have a pretty good reputation for accuracy.
.338 Federal (only if you handload) and good luck finding one. I would love to try this caliber.
.350 Rem Mag (my personal favorite for this type of hunting), combined with a Rem M7 will handle all of the stuff walking the lower 48. It's light and compact.

IF I wasn't a bolt gun guy, my ideal repeater for what you describe would be a Rem 760 or 7600 pump in either .358 Win, or .35Whelen with a 20" barrel and low power variable scope.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I’ve watched a buddy of mine kill dozens of free range spot and stalk hogs with a .30-30. He preferred 170 Gr bullets but he had no issues killing even big mature boars with his 94 Win in .30 WCF.

 

[BRatigan]

I've owned one since the nineties. They are hard hitting and accurate to 200 yrds. The 94 is lightweight and easy to carry all day. I use peeps on it. Its good for moose on down. Just my experiences with it.

 

[jmr40]

Marlin only made 375 for one year and those are now selling for a premium. My brother had one and sold his at a very nice profit. Winchester only made 94's in the round for a few years. If you can find one you'll pay a hefty price for it. And in reality, 375 doesn't do anything you can't do with 30-30. That is why people stopped buying them. The 30-30, and most any other cartridge over 26 caliber will kill anything in North America. The biggest difference between all of them is the effective range.

I'm not a lever guy, I use bolt guns for everything. I also like some flexibility in my woods guns to be able to stretch it if need be. IF it were me I'd go with a bolt gun, 20" barrel in:

Good advice. A short range cartridge like 30-30 or 375 works fine at shorter ranges. But there is no handicap to using a cartridge like 308, 30-06, 270, etc. at short range; and they can also be effective at much longer ranges if the opportunity arises.

I own over a dozen lever action rifles in 22, 30-30, 44 mag, and 35 Rem. I've had 45-70 in the past. I own them because I like the rifles and for the historical significance. I like them, and I just enjoy shooting them. I even take one hunting occasionally just for the fun of it. But as a serious hunting tool I'll take a bolt rifle 10 times out of 10 even for close range fast shooting.

While lever guns are touted as light and fast handling you can put together an 18-20" barreled bolt rifle that weighs less with a scope on it than a typical lever action rifle with no scope. A Winchester 94 is going to weigh 6 3/4 lbs unscoped, at least 7 1/2 scoped. Most Marlin 336's are 7-7 1/4 unscoped and up to 8lbs scoped. I don't have a scoped "hunting" bolt gun in the safe over 7 1/2 lbs and it is possible to come in under 6 lbs scoped with the right bolt gun.

A scope isn't just useful for long range work. They help you see both the target and your sights even at close range in poor light. In thick brush you can see limbs and brush you can't see with the naked eye and find openings to place the bullet through. You'll make shots at 25 yards with a low powered scope in conditions where you can't even see the front sight with irons

Rate of fire. A man who knows how to work a bolt rifle can hang right with anyone with a lever action for "aimed" fire. The amount of time it takes to get off 3-4 shots and actually hit a deer size target with all shots at 50 yards is going to be virtually the same with anything other than a semi-auto.

 

[highlander 5]

30/30 has taken millions of deer for a century wild hogs shouldn't be a problem if you are that concerned about stopping power get a Marlin in 45/70.
You'll be able to find ammo dor both when the shortage clears up just about anywhere.

 

[22250Rem]

This thread made me think of the feasibility of a 444 Marlin lever gun. For woods and brush hunting it hits like the hammer of Thor. Friend of mine has one and I've fired it on occasion and don't find the recoil to be objectionable. Even though plenty of hogs get taken every year with 30-30's.

 

[DM~]

The catch is there are many areas with quite dense bush, so bolt action rifle in 8x57, or 7x64, or 30-06 isn't the best choice.

Any thoughts or comments?

Yeaaa, what ever gave you the idea that a bolt gun in 8x57, 7x64 or 30-06 isn't the best choice??

Loaded properly, as far as caliber/cartridge, they are every bit as good, or even better than a .375 Winchester........and in some cases, a much better choice.

DM

 

[earlthegoat2]

I think the aforementioned 30-06 and 8x57 would work great in the thick stuff.

I don’t think there is sufficient enough reason, unless it is to purchase a lever action, to handicap yourself with the 375 and it’s nearly unobtainium brass or loaded ammo.

 

[Risky buisness]

A 375 will certainly suffice. As some other posters have mentioned, a 30-30 is clearly adequate for any role the OP has mentioned. As i dont have a 375 I can't comment much on availability of ammunition cause i dont look for it. While some here are not fans of lever guns, thats not me. If i felt i needed a really high preformance lever gun, 338 marlin or a cranked up 45-70 would be an option. As would an 1886 Winchester in some of the serious calibers.
Perhaps a 1895 Winchester, or its remakes from miroku in .270, 3006. I would like to find one in 7.62x 54R just cause i like rimmed cartridges.
But dont just brush off the 3030, or 32 Win special they have been putting large creatures down for a long time.

 

[earlthegoat2]

This thread made me think of the feasibility of a 444 Marlin lever gun. For woods and brush hunting it hits like the hammer of Thor. Friend of mine has one and I've fired it on occasion and don't find the recoil to be objectionable. Even though plenty of hogs get taken every year with 30-30's.

That would likely be a more practical solution than acquiring a 375 provided 444 Marlin ammo is available. It has always been more available than 375 Win though.

The 444 gains a lot over the 375 if immediate smack down is your goal.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I don’t think there is sufficient enough reason, unless it is to purchase a lever action, to handicap yourself with the 375 and it’s nearly unobtainium brass or loaded ammo.

Fully agree, however perhaps thanks to the present weirdness, I found that both Starline and Grafs actually have brass in stock right now!

https://www.starlinebrass.com/375-win

Since we're talking islands, is the OP perchance an Hawaii resident? As a not-very-gun-friendly state, does Hawaii present any unusual legal factors influencing weapon choice for boar?

 

[Barr]

The .375 Winchester is the one round I never did much load development for. The .30-30 Winchester is the get it done round and is frequently compared to a .44 Magnum in a lever carbine. There are many lightweight bolt action mountain gun carbines today in the .308 Winchester or 6.5mm Creedmoor that punch the ticket even better.

A nostalgic purist goes for the lever gun. The practical hunter goes for the mass produced polymer bolt rifle from big box land.

If asking for my personal choice a big bore lever wins the ticket. I deer hunt w a single shot rifle, whether in a carbine pistol big bore or a sub-.30 caliber flat-shooting round. I like practicality but I value the journey more, a hunter tells the story of food plot and stalking / herd development w a game camera. The gun aficionado and engineer tells the story of the equipment and load development in the off-season.

 

[CraigC]

And in reality, 375 doesn't do anything you can't do with 30-30. That is why people stopped buying them. The 30-30, and most any other cartridge over 26 caliber will kill anything in North America. The biggest difference between all of them is the effective range.

We've been here before. Only problem with this rhetoric is that the .375JDJ essentially duplicates the .375Winchester in a handgun and has been used to take all the African Big 6. How many with the .30-30? Sorry, the .375 is a bigger hammer. The fact that the .375 kills deer just as dead as the .30-30 does not make them equal.

While lever guns are touted as light and fast handling you can put together an 18-20" barreled bolt rifle that weighs less with a scope on it than a typical lever action rifle with no scope. A Winchester 94 is going to weigh 6 3/4 lbs unscoped, at least 7 1/2 scoped. Most Marlin 336's are 7-7 1/4 unscoped and up to 8lbs scoped. I don't have a scoped "hunting" bolt gun in the safe over 7 1/2 lbs and it is possible to come in under 6 lbs scoped with the right bolt gun.

Done this dance before too. My 16" Ruger American Ranch .300BO is my lightest centerfire boltgun at 6lbs with no optic. My Winchester 94 Big Bore .375 is the lightest at 6lbs 4oz. My Rossi Puma .454 is 6lbs 5oz. A standard 20" 1894 .30-30 carbine is 6lbs 9oz. A 24" .38-55 rifle is 6lbs 10oz. These are all steel rifles with walnut stocks. A Ruger American Rimfire with a red dot is 6lbs 9oz. So I think you'll have to try harder to win the weight war, even with a plastic stocked rifle.

Rate of fire. A man who knows how to work a bolt rifle can hang right with anyone with a lever action for "aimed" fire. The amount of time it takes to get off 3-4 shots and actually hit a deer size target with all shots at 50 yards is going to be virtually the same with anything other than a semi-auto.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but this is just false. There is no possible way to physically operate a boltgun as fast as a lever. Of course, very little of what you post about leverguns is actually true. In fact, there is very little difference between a levergun and a semi-auto, with the bolt gun lagging behind both.

 

[DukeConnor]

I hunted deer with one for years. It seemed to put them down pretty quick.

I lent it to my nephew to hunt with and he somehow "lost" it.

 

[ECVMatt]

Sounds like the OP is from Europe?

I had a chance to get a .375 Marlin a while back and passed on it. I regret that. I have shot lots of critters with the .30/30 and it works. We used whatever the rifle liked best in the 150/170 class bullets.

However if more power than the .30/30 is desired then the .45/70 Government is the only government I trust. Much like the .45 Colt it can be found loaded down for target shooting and loaded hot for just about anything. The handloader has even more versatility with Trail Boss thrown into the mix.

I have not got a chance to shoot many animals with my .45/70 but the few I have were decisive hits with instinatinous incapacitation.

If the OP is looking at bigger boars and bears, then the .45/70 is work a serious look.

Edit to add: The Ruger Guide Gun in .30/06 with 180's, 200's, or 220's would also be a fun choice for close up shooting.

 

[codytrucker]

where are you located ? How big of bears and boars are we talking about? These are true wild boars , not feral pigs , I'm assuming? Still , a 30-30 model 94 with a 170 grain bullet inside of a hundred yards/meters will have decent penetration and power for most animals under 800 pounds , and for taller thinner critters like moose and elk up to about any weight. A model 94 carbine handles a lot like a shotgun for quick shots at close ranges . and if your talking multiple targets at close ranges would be hard to beat . recoil recovery is a lot faster from a 30-30 than a .375 , but the extra bullet weight is a thing , too . A 38-55 is an excellent compromise if you reload , and a lot easier to find rifles chambered in.

 

[Onty]

We've been here before. Only problem with this rhetoric is that the .375JDJ essentially duplicates the .375Winchester in a handgun and has been used to take all the African Big 6. How many with the .30-30? Sorry, the .375 is a bigger hammer. The fact that the .375 kills deer just as dead as the .30-30 does not make them equal...

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but this is just false. There is no possible way to physically operate a boltgun as fast as a lever. Of course, very little of what you post about leverguns is actually true. In fact, there is very little difference between a levergun and a semi-auto, with the bolt gun lagging behind both.

You nailed it squarely! Some folks missed that I also mentioned a bear. Their size/weight could vary, one killed 2018 was about 265 lbs., however, they could be larger. In case I face one, I would prefer larger 375 bullet over 30,

Regarding bolt action, I had seen (video) few shooters they could be quite fast. But, they are very proficient experts. Most of us cannot come even close to those, including myself. When considering lever v/s semiauto rifle, there is one important issue; due regulations here, bolt, pump and lever guns could have in magazine max. 5 rounds. Semiautos are limited to 2 rounds.

And finally, since we are talking about areas that have few villages and small farms, 375 Winchester has certain advantage because it doesn't have such long range as 30-06, 8x57 and similar rounds.

 

[Onty]

I am in Croatia, the island is Krk. Here are few articles about bears killed there (wait for translation):

https://www-novilist-hr.translate.g...tr_sl=hr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

https://www-vecernji-hr.translate.g...tr_sl=hr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Yeah, they have true wild boars, not feral pigs. And they could go in that area up to 300 lbs.

 

[Goosey]

I think the main problem is suitable bullets especially if you may need lead-free in future. For that reason I would prefer .30, .35, .44 or .45 in a levergun.

 

[codytrucker]

Those bears are what we call grizzly's here in Wyoming . Although from what I have read the European ones don't have the nasty reputations ours do , I wouldn't offer my leg up to one to see if he'd chew it off or not! That's a cool island ,from what I just briefly read about it. Good luck on your hunting there , and I think a lever gun could be a big benefit there.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I won't get into the ballistics debate, and this probably does not matter, but every Winchester 94 in 375 that I have seen sure was a nicer gun, in fit and finish, than other calibers.

I will say that the 150 grain bullet in the .30-30 is inferior in every way to the 170. In fact, I think a 180 grain bullet would be a better or "ideal" weight.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Regarding bolt action, I had seen (video) few shooters they could be quite fast.

If I desired a fast bolt action, it would certainly be the SMLE. Now them things can go fast! (sorry...SMLE fan here) However, on this speed of action thing, I think that making the first shot count matters most. Follow up shots should also be precise.