.38-200 S&W (victory?)

[paulrob0311]

I'm wondering if this revolver is a Victory model or earlier. Serial # doesn't start with a V but i think the numbers maybe right...685xxx. Numbers match on butt frame ,cylinder,under the walnut grips and push rod.
Also wondering if the crossed swords and K/2/B markings are a British unit. This revolver has a 4" barrel and only takes .38 S&W not .38 SP. I've added a few pics to help identify. Thanks in advance for whatever info you might have.

 

[Oyeboten]

It was made prior to the 'Victory' series...


'M&P' Revolvers in .38 S&W and .38 Special (if less so,)were constantly being exported to England/Great Britain/UK, from the beginning...if the majority of course were during WWII, and WWI respectively, exports were going on before and between Wars also.


So...one sees British Acceptance Marks, 'Proofs' or release/export/from-UK Marks on these occuring all through their producion History.


One also sees British Proofs on ocasional Ivor Johnson and other .38 S&W chambering Revolvers.


I don't have my Book handy for looking up the Serial Number, but others likely will...


After the first million 'M&P's, they started the serial numering over again, only with a 'V' prefix, which happened to roughly co-incide with the beginning of WWII....where they made roughly a million 'V' prefix ones, then, started over with an 'S' prefix...then after a million, started over with a 'C' prefix...then in 1957, it became the Model 10.




So, yours, is maybe from the early to mid 1930s.

 

[SaxonPig]

I think what you have is a Military & Police Model that was sold in Great Britain (or some part of the empire) as a commercial gun or maybe for police use. Does not look like a military contract gun as these are usually parkerized with smooth stocks and have 5" barrels and this gun is too old for being wartime production. Appears to be in nice shape.

 

[Old Fuff]

Smith & Wesson started making what they called the .38-200 model on March 11, 1940. All of these early revolvers were finished to commercial standards, with high-polished blue and checkered walnut stocks. Barrel lengths had not been standardized, and 4, 5 and 6 inch lengths were used. Numbered frames were pulled from past inventory that had been made, but not finished and assembled during the Great Depression years. It is believed that the serial numbers of new production started in the 800,000 range, but earlier examples are known.

I would get an historical letter from S&W. It would cost $50.00 but confirm the gun's background and history. It is likely that the letter would increase the revolver's value by more then the document cost. Additional details will be found on the Smith & Wesson website.

Do keep in mind that prior to 1940, S&W did not offer their .38 Military & Police model / 1905 Hand Ejector, chambered in any .38 cartridge except the .38 Special or .38 Long Colt.

 

[paulrob0311]

you guys are good

Thanks guys, appreciate all your input on this beauty. Its in great shape except for missing the lanyard. Any guess on those crossed swords insignia? I really don't care much about the value of this revolver, i'm more interested in the history its been thru. I think i'll contact S&W and pay that $50 just to add something more to its heritage. Thanks again.

 

[Oyeboten]

Do keep in mind that prior to 1940, S&W did not offer their .38 Military & Police model / 1905 Hand Ejector, chambered in any .38 cartridge except the .38 Special or .38 Long Colt.

Thanks Old Fluff...I'd mis-spoke on that...

I'd been looking at a lot of old Colt 'Police Positives' and I think it addled my Brain...


Ooooops...



Phil

 

[Old Fuff]

Stop That!!!

I have been looking at those old Colt's too...

 

[Old Fuff]

Any guess on those crossed swords insignia? I really don't care much about the value of this revolver, i'm more interested in the history its been thru. I think i'll contact S&W and pay that $50 just to add something more to its heritage. Thanks again.

The crossed swords are military property stamps. They could have been made by the UK or several of its Commonwealth or Empire countries. I suspect it might have been Canada.

The revolver's history is very interesting, as it literally saved Smith & Wesson from bankruptcy. You can find a lot of background by using this forum's Search fearure (green bar at top of page). Use key words such as: .38-200, Victory and .38 S&W ctg.

 

[Oro]

The crossed swords are military property stamps. They could have been made by the UK or several of its Commonwealth or Empire countries. I suspect it might have been Canada.

I agree they imply a military property - but I don't think they are generic "property" stamps. I think it is a unit stamp. And I think they are British. The crossed pennants are Canadian military property stamps. This is a theory and educated guess but not a definitive statement:

The crossed swords upright with a crown superposed is the traditional insignia of the British Army. Inverting those swords and inserting unit numbers was a common way of marking property. I would suspect the symbols mean something like 2/11 (2nd bn., 11th Regiment) or similar. There was an Australian unit with that designation in the very early days of WWII, and also the Lancashire fusiliers 2nd Bn. would have been referred to that way when attached to 11 Brigade in the 4th ID.

Anyway, it's an educated guess, as British Army unit histories are something I've read about periodically but don't know well (it is terribly confusing and makes the confused US lineages look like child's play in comparison). The British export proof marks on the barrel mean it ended up in the UK at some point before coming back - probably initially exported there as stated.

Even though the s/n is lower than the Victory and Lend/Lease guns, it's not impossible that it was one of them. Like Old Fuff said, in the very early days of WWII ('40 and '41), they were just shipping commercial guns as part of military contracts and clearing out excess inventory from the Depression (S&W accumulated an enormous inventory backlog - I have heard it was done to keep employees in their jobs and production was kept up despite lack of sales - imagine that today!).

I think a letter on this would be interesting, even though it may offer no more than a date, but it may show delivery to one of the British receiving agents in the US, which would be worth it.

 

[Oyeboten]

paulrob0311,



Is there evidence of a Lanyard Ring having been present at one time?

 

[paulrob0311]

Oyeboten,


Yes, there is a hole and it definetly had a lanyard. I'll be looking to find one to complete this revolver. Depending on the price i'll also be looking for a matching holster.