Shooting a converted 38 S&W Victory model

[Tex62]

I have a British 38 S&W Victory model that was converted to 38 Special. I was disappointed with shooting 38 special out of it and was wondering if anyone had any experience with shooting 38 S&W out of a converted one?



Shooting 38 special out of it was a bit like the time I accidentally shot 22 out of my Ruger single 6 with the WRM cylinder in it. More of a pffft than a bang.



Thanks.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have a British 38 S&W Victory model that was converted to 38 Special. I was disappointed with shooting 38 special out of it and was wondering if anyone had any experience with shooting 38 S&W out of a converted one?



Shooting 38 special out of it was a bit like the time I accidentally shot 22 out of my Ruger single 6 with the WRM cylinder in it. More of a pffft than a bang.



Thanks.

If you think a .38 Special is like a pffft you will think the 38 S&W is like a fly passing you. 38 S&W ammo is much lighter than any commercial .38 Special ammo, even cowboy ammo. (sorry)

 

[sixgunner455]

Did you get split cases? The .38 S&W case diameter is slightly larger than the .38 Special case diameter, and a common problem with "converted" revolvers has always been that the .38 Special cases will split in the oversized chambers.

Another problem is that the bore diameter is wrong for the .38 Special. .38 Special is .357". .38 S&W is .361" (9.2mm). Thus, when you shoot an undersized .357" bullet through that .361" chamber throat and barrel, you may not get a good seal in the bore if the bullet doesn't obdurate sufficiently to make tight contact on the whole bore.

Those "conversions" consisted of using a .38 Special chamber reamer to lengthen the chambers, shortening the throats. This was done to allow shooting in the U.S. of the much more common .38 Special, but it was really an ill-considered thing to do to those guns.

Your comparison of shooting .22Lr through a .22 Magnum cylinder is spot-on: the .22LR case is undersized in the .22 Magnum cylinder, so it didn't get a good gas seal, and quite possibly split those cases, too.

If I were you, I would not shoot that gun with .38 Special ammunition, and I don't think I would shoot it with .38 S&W either, if you can even find any. What I would probably do is put it in a shadow box on the wall, or sell it. If I really wanted to shoot it, I would try to track down a replacement cylinder from another Victory revolver that was never mucked with. Or get another complete, un-mucked-up revolver to shoot and keep your current one for spare parts.

 

[Tex62]

I guess I should quantify the issue a little better. I reload 38 special and was trying to shoot a mild 158g load. Between the case expansion and the fact that I think the .357 bullet does not seal as well in the 38 S&W barrel, you get more of a pffft. I am wondering if shooting 38 S&W will seal any better given that the chambers have modified to accept 38 special....



Thanks

 

[Tex62]

I was getting expanded cases.



Sounds like 38 S&W is a no go to. Since I reload, I was considering getting some this weekend at the gun show and seeing how it did. Then maybe find some dies to reload for it.



Got the gun for free, so maybe it is trade fodder...

 

[sixgunner455]

Maybe you'll find a good M&P from the same era at the gunshow. Good luck!

 

[Old Fuff]

Rather then put the revolver into a shadow box, see if you can find some recently manufactured .38 S&W ammunition and try it out. If the accuracy is improved buy loading dies. Remember that this cartridge is down loaded by mainline manufacturers because of the large number of middle-to-poor quality top-break revolvers that were made a century or more ago. The S&W K-frame will easily stand up to handloads offering performance in the standard .38 Special range.

 

[MikeJackmin]

If you reload, and your cases didn't split, why not just try a little more powder and a fatter bullet?

 

[Curator]

Get some .38S&W brass, load some .360-.361 bullets of 160-200 grain weight and you will be good to go. All the "conversion" does is lengthen the chamber slightly. As you probably know .38S&W brass is slightly larger diameter than .38 S&W Special. Check to see if once fired .38 Special fired in these chambers will allow seating of .361 diameter bullets, if they do, load them with .38 Special load data and the correct sized cast lead bullets and you should be OK with these as well.

 

[Jaymo]

Buffalo Bore .38 S&W loads are anything but wimpy.

A buddy of mine has one of these rechambered British Contract .380/200 revolvers.
He swears it's very accurate.
Of course, I realize that can be subjective.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The only way I can shoot my Enifeld No2 in 38 S&W is to load my own because factory ammo is almost impossible to find and when you do it's way too expensive. I'm mostly loading .360" 170gr flat nose bullets but I do load some 200gr bullets at time to replicate the 38/200 British load.

 

[RON in PA]

Another route to try is using .38 special cases loaded with hollow base 148 grain bullets. The hollow based bullets should expand to fill the slightly larger bore.

 

[LAGS]

If you do a chamber cast of each of your cylinders, and you can see that the chambers were reamed in a consistant Diameter and only made Deeper to accept the longer .38 special casing, then you chould not have any accuracy or safety issues.
It would be no different than someone shooting a .38 Spl in a .357 Magnum.

But there were several ways that these revolvers were converted.
The most common way was for someone to just run a .38 Spl reamer into the chambers and deepen them. ( Hack Jobs )
These are often not round or lined up any more due to the smaller diameter of the .38 Spl Reamer in the oversized chamber. Casting will show that.
The next method was to just deepen the cylinder to the needed depth with the proped diameter reamer.
These revolvers shoot .38S&W ammo just fine.
The last way is where they Thru Bored the cylinder all the way thru to the same diameter as the casing.
These will still fire safely, but can loose a little accuracy because the bullet is traveling so far in the cylinder freely before it gets to the forcing cone of the barrel.

Casting your chambers will tell you exactly what you have.

 

[Tex62]

It game with a box of hollow base wad cutters, so that must be the best 38 special load for these things.



I'll try to find some 38S&W for it and see how it goes.



Thanks for the input.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Reaming WWII surplus British contract S&W Victory model revolvers out to .38 Special is kinda like cutting the cylinders of WWI and WWII surplus Webley Mark IV and Mark VI .455 revolver to take .45 AutoRim or .45 ACP in moonclips. In the short run, it made the surplus guns take commercially available ammo to appeal to folks who wanted a cheap gun. In the long run, it made the new generation of Curio & Relic collectors grit their teeth and curse under their breath.

The most common complaint with the .38 S&W to .38 Special conversion is the .38 Special cases bulge and resizing works the brass too much. Plus accuracy sucks. We have some folks at the local club who shot Victory models in .38 S&W in black powder cartridge, modern military and vintage military matches and with proper handloads their scores are to envy. I don't think anyone shoots a reamed model in formal matches, but some do shoot the Victory model in .38 S&W.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Try this -- load hollowbased wadcutters, and neck-resize your brass in a .38 S&W die. With any luck, your bullets will expand enough to give good accuracy and your brass will last longer.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Re: using 357-358 bullets in a 38 S&W Victory. One very simple test would be to slug the barrel with one of your 357-358 bullets. Don't bother measuring the slug, it probably has an odd number of grooves and will be difficult to measure exactly. Instead, examine the slug closely. Look for longitudinal drag marks on the slug. Most important, look for longitudinal drag marks on the high spots on the slug. The high spots on the slug correspond to the rifling grooves. If you see drag marks on the slug where it deformed into the grooves, then you know the grooves were completely filled by the bullet. If however you only see drag marks on the low spots of the slug (the lands) then you know the bullet did not completely fill the rifling.

Here is a photo of some bullets I ran through a 45 caliber barrel. The bullet on the right is virgin. The other two were driven through the barrel. The arrow is pointing to drag marks made on a slug by the grooves of the rifling. This bullet completely filled the rifling when it was run through the barrel.