.38 brass question

[herkyguy]

Is .38 Special ammo within specs without an extractor groove? I shot some Blazer .38 Special today at a LGS and it gave my Winchester 1873 fits in both loading and extracting. Turns out it had no extractor groove.

Never seen this before.... will likely reload it, but keep it for revolvers.

 

[Starter52]

Interesting. I wonder if shooting that ammo from a revolver would cause the same problems.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I've got about 1,000 rounds of that brass, and confine it to revolver use. Not only does it not have an extractor groove, the rims also appear thinner and have a distinctive step in the circumference of the rim. It's probably going to produce problems extracting from Marlin and Winchester clone lever guns, which is why I won't load it for that. I've been advising SASS shooters to be on the lookout for it.

Some of the new Herter's .38 Special brass is also minus the extractor groove, but doesn't have the distinctive ring around the outer rim of the case. Looking at the base, it looks identical to any other standard .38 Spl. brass, but once you look at it from the side, you'll notice right away that it's sans an extractor groove.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[newfalguy101]

With the rim it suprises me you had extraction issues, seems like the extractor should be able to catch the rim without need for a groove

 

[FROGO207]

Without taking apart things and seeing the width of the opening of the extractor I am thinking it is narrower than the case wall so it grips the brSs to aid morion in both directions. The different brass is cheaper to.make as there is no time spent turning it to make the groove. Saves a penny or sp to produce. When all the rifle shooters catch on they will stop buying said ammo. Sad to see a manufacturer shoot themselves in the foot so to speak to save less than a dollar per box. But then again I do not run a large corporation either.

 

[mcb]

The "extraction groove" is actually just an artifact of the way many manufactures are cutting the rim to the correct thickness for head-space. They over cut the depth to ensure they do not leave a burr in that inside corner.

The grove is not part of the SAAMI spec. The fact that this groove is not part of the SAAMI spec and every manufacture has their own take on it is why moonclips for rimmed cartridges are so much pickier for us that love moonclips.

The extractor groove of rimless cartridges is part of the SAAMI spec. The rim is suppose to be sufficient for rimed cartridges...

 

[Eddietruett]

For over 40 years, I have never sorted brass with the exception of brass and nickel, and have never even noticed that some didn't have a groove. I've never had any sort of extraction problem with any of my revolvers or lever guns. The vast majority of my shooting has been and will always be with .38/.357.
I decided to go look in the bag of ammo I'm taking to the range tomorrow and to my surprise most of it has grooves, but some does not. The ones with grooves are all sorts of different widths and some look deeper than others. Didn't go to the trouble to put a micrometer on any but I for one learned something tonight

 

[entropy]

Yes, there is no part of the spec requiring an extractor groove, but most modern .38 Spl. has it.

 

[herkyguy]

With the rim it suprises me you had extraction issues, seems like the extractor should be able to catch the rim without need for a groove

I’ve shot both factory and reloads through my Winchester 1873, literally 1000+ rounds. It’s a Muroku and has been absolutely flawless up until yesterday. The Blazer rounds would slide slightly sideways in the chamber and lock up the action, as if they weren’t being held correctly by the bolt/extractor while closing the action. Total pain. Extraction was also interesting, some brass caught just fine on the extractor, but the majority just kinda wiggled around then stovepiped.

I’ll keep the brass, but relegate it to my wheelguns. And definitely won’t let it slip into my ammo supply for the 1873. Clearing the malfunction required a pair of pliers and a minute or two of finagling.

 

[LaneP]

I'm also having an "I learned something" moment today. Never gave that little groove one ounce of thought before reading this, but now I'm going to be looking at that going forward.