38 S&W Revolver

[Bnowlin48]

I have an old nickel plated S&W revolver that seems to be a 38 S&W. The first clew was that my 38 Spec. ammo would not chamber in it. A gunsmith pulled out a 38 S&W cartridge and it fit. Now I see that there seems to be more than one type of 38 S&W. A short one and a long one? How can I tell what I have. I didn't know enough to ask the right questions when I had the chance and now I'm confused.
Jump in here boys and girls, I need your collective wisdom.

 

[rcmodel]

See this Sticky thread at the top of this forum.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=372213

Provide the necessary details of your gun as the first post outlines, and your question will be accurately answered.

We can't even try to guess with nothing to base the guess on.

rc

 

[WestKentucky]

Most likely you have the standard 38s&w if a 38spl will not chamber. Outside dims are very similar, the spl is noticeably longer and not noticeably smaller in diameter. The only difference I know of is in loading variety which is a big deal in my thin walled cylinder on my h&r American that can only handle black powder cartridges. Smokeless cartridges make more pressure. My understanding is that most s&w guns were thicker and can handle the smokeless even if they were built in the bp era, but double check that by running model number and figuring out age by serial number or patent info.

 

[rswartsell]

There were a lot of ".38 " cartridges of that era, only 1 properly named .38 Smith and Wesson. Bullet of .361 diameter OAL of 1.24". To add to possible confusion, the Colt .38 New Police is the same round (Colt didn't want to advertise for S&W on the side of their barrels). Created in 1877 it was designed as a black powder round. Modern smokeless rounds are indeed available.

The .38 most familiar currently is the .38 Smith and Wesson Special. An entirely different round of .357 diameter bullet created in 1899 (originally black powder but less than a year later, smokeless) almost it's entire development is with the modern smokeless powder. 1.55" OAL.

The .38 rounds contemporary (roughly) with the .38 S&W were the Colt .38 Short and Long. These were developed when cap and ball muzzle loading revolvers began to be converted for brass cartridge use. This is because the Colt .36 Navy muzzle loader was so popular. It used a .357 ball and was named by rounding up to .36.

The Colt .36 Navy is the grandfather of all modern .38s. The .38 S&W gained ascendancy for a brief period because of the slightly larger bullet and more power. If you aren't confused yet I will tag team with the other gurus on the board to expound on the .357 Magnum.

 

[hartcreek]

For my .38 S&W I use .38 Special cases and cut them down with a Forester case cutter.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Now I see that there seems to be more than one type of 38 S&W. A short one and a long one? How can I tell what I have.

Actually, there is really only one 38 S&W cartridge but there are many cartridges which are similar. There is the 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long as well as the 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt but the 38 S&W stands along.

How to tell what your revolver is chambered in? Usually the cartridge is stamped on the barrel.
Something like: "38 S&W ctg." or "38 S&W Special ctg."

 

[Jim K]

One point confuses many folks.

There is a cartridge called the ".38 Smith & Wesson" or ".38 S&W". It was developed by S&W, but was used in many other brands of revolvers.

There is another cartridge originally called the ".38 S&W Special" or just ".38 Special." It is longer and smaller in diameter than the .38 S&W. It, too, was developed by S&W but has also been used in many revolvers (and some auto pistols) by other makers.

So the two terms are names of cartridges, not names or makers of guns. Many guns are marked with the name of the cartridge, while the maker's name is less obvious or even not present. Trying to guess the maker is often a problem; it is like asking a car expert to identify a car marked "Unleaded Fuel Only".

Jim

 

[savit260]

This is because the Colt .36 Navy muzzle loader was so popular. It used a .357 ball and was named by rounding up to .36.

Actually, the Colt .36 Navy uses a .375--.380 ball.

Percussion revolvers were named for the bore measurement across the lands , not the grooves .... so a .36 (bore diameter at the lands) is actually closer to 38 at the grooves.

The cartridge conversions of these guns were true .38's using outside lubed , heel base (like a modern .22lr) bullet. (Picture a muffin top where the bottom is in the brass, and the wider top is outside the brass) When these were switched over to inside lubed , non heel base bullets (like almost all modern bullets are today) they used the .357 bullet we are familiar with today. At that same time the "38" bore size was reduced to .357 or so to accommodate the new inside lubed bullets.

 

[rswartsell]

a tip of the hat to savit260. I told you there were some gurus here and I bow to them in such as this.

P.S. I did promise you confusing. I didn't lie about that. I still hold to the Colt .36 Navy being the grandfather of what we know as ".38's".

Fortunately most of this confusion has resolved itself in modern times by the almost complete dominance of the .38 Smith & Wesson Special or .38 Special. In a distant second place is the largely obsolete but still produced .38 Smith & Wesson. The rest of what is discussed here is far enough in the past that you would need to actively search for the guns that use them or the cartridges themselves.

The bad news? Apparently you posses a revolver chambered in the archaic .38 Smith & Wesson. The good news? You can still get ammunition appropriate for this weapon.

 

[Bnowlin48]

The pistol is currently in the hands of a local gunsmith for a thorough cleaning inside and a complete inspection so I can't give you the serial # but, It is clearly marked as a Smith and Wesson pistol but unlike my S&W Mod. 66 38 Special there is no marking on the frame, cylinder or barrel that would tell me what the caliber is. It is nickel plated and I was told it is a K frame with a six shot capacity. When I get it back, I'll post the numbers I can find. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[armoredman]

And pictures, please - that helps a great deal.

 

[il.bill]

... Many guns are marked with the name of the cartridge, while the maker's name is less obvious or even not present. Trying to guess the maker is often a problem; it is like asking a car expert to identify a car marked "Unleaded Fuel Only".

Jim

That is a great way to put it!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It is clearly marked as a Smith and Wesson pistol but unlike my S&W Mod. 66 38 Special there is no marking on the frame, cylinder or barrel that would tell me what the caliber is.

Not to nit-pick but the S&W M66 is a .357 Magnum revolver, not a .38 Special. Of course it can fire both rounds but it is a magnum.

Can't wait to see the pictures when you get the revolver back if you can post pictures. I hope it gets a clean bill of health so you can shoot it!

 

[Radagast]

A 6 shot K frame .38 S&W is either a K200 British Service Revolver from WWII or a post war Model 11, which is basically the same fish as a commercial item for sale to one of the nations of the former British Empire.

 

[heyjoe]

i read recently that a poster had ordered some of the buffalo bore 38 s&w for testing. im looking forward to the results. i have a 2" terrier.

 

[savit260]

I still hold to the Colt .36 Navy being the grandfather of what we know as ".38's

Yup, most of the .38 cartridges (with the .38 S&W being a notable exception) and the .357 Magnum can trace their lineage back to the Colt 36 cap & ball guns.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

The parent cartridge of the 38 S&W Special ie: 38 special is the .38 Colt or as it called today Short Colt. It was later lengthened to .38 Long Colt and then further lengthened in to the .38 S&W Special. All three of these cartridges use the same diameter bullet (.357) since the days of smokeless powder, the difference being in case length and powder loadings. The .357 magnum uses the same case also which was lengthened again. .38 S&W uses a larger .361 diameter bullet in a relatively shorter case. It is NOT interchangeable with any of the above mentioned cartridges.

 

[toiville2feathers]

Don't forget the 38 colt new police. The brass is just a little longer(1/8 inch) than the 38 short.
I don't know the dimension's of it. Maybe that what a 38 long is.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Here is 3 of my .38 S&Ws.

Top one is a Australian RAAF .38 S&W used in New Guinea. Had trench art grips and silver shillings and 6 pences in the grips (the ones on it now are not the origial ones.)

Second is my Colt Police Positive marked 'Chase Manhattan Bank." Yep a bank guards gun.

The third is a Webley pocket model made in about 1953.

They all look ALOT better than the photo shows.

And they all shoot strait.

Deaf

 

[Radagast]

.38 Colt New Police is the same as .38 S&W - Colt would not stamp S&W on their guns.