.38 s&w

[MI2600]

I've always reloaded .38 S&W with lead bullets, primarily for plinking. I recently picked up a nice little 2" S&W Terrier and might consider it for concealed carry.

However, when I searched vendors and forums I could not find anything but lead bullets, no jacketed. There were some forum reports of using .357 jacketed bullets and even reloading data for them, but I question their use.

Anyone know of a jacketed source?

 

[splattergun]

I've never seen .360 or .361 jacketed either. Using .357 would be a loose fit, likely loss of accuracy. Remember the .38S&W guns are generally very old breaktops and other weak platforms, hence low and slow lead. Perhaps ?? maybe?? a .358 round nose soft point might work? But even so, you don't want to push you pressure too high.

My GF keeps the Webley .38S&W that her father gave her in her home office.
We all know it is a rather anemic caliber, right? I've tried to convince her that she has better choices in her gun cabinet for HD, but she insists. "Daddy was in the army and he knows about those things". OK, I give. It's better than nothing. After all, getting shot with a 38S&W is still getting shot.

 

[Old Fuff]

You can load .358" diameter bullets into .38 S&W cases if you substitute a .358" inside neck sizing plug in place of the .361 size.

If you are using a hand ejector revolver instead of a top-break you can work up loads that will give you 700 FPS (or better depending on bullet weight) out of a 2" barrel and still be safe.

For the record, the UK and Commonwealth used this round in their military service revolvers from World War Two through Korea - and occasionally later.

Last but not least - Colt Police Positive's have tight barrel grooves (.354" - .356") and chamber throats (.358") and work fine with .358" .38 Special bullets ranging from 110 grains to 200 grain weights.

 

[Mad Chemist]

I'd stick with a lead wadcutter bullet. You will not get enough velocity from that 2"bbl to expand a jhp anyway. Speer #11 has some decent load data for this cartridge.

 

[joem1945]

I've never seen a jacketed bullet for .38S&W. I have a couple of boxes of original .38S&W and they are lead RN 158 grain.

 

[243winxb]

Lead bullet .360" and 146gr is what was in my old factory 38 S&W ammo.

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[Walkalong]

Neither of these will expand, but will leave a full caliber hole. They are .357 in diameter but shoot fine in my two .38 S&W revolvers. I push the 148 to just over 700 FPS in my Victory Model, and the 158 Gr SWC to just under 700 FPS.

I don't know of any JHP that is going to expand much at safe .38 S&W velocities.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Hey Walkalong,

Is that plated WC a hollow base or a double ended bullet?

 

[Walkalong]

I had to look it up to be sure, but that one is a Berrys HBWC. The other is an X-Treme SWC.

 

[Galil5.56]

Speer #10 and #12 have 110 and 125 grain jacketed data... Can't say I have ever used anything but lead in my Webley. Even .358" cast and soft swage work OK for me. Good luck, and please report back if you try out some jacketed.

 

[Walkalong]

I used to use that data to shoot the old cheap bulk Remington 125 Gr JHPs in a S&W Model 33, and it worked fine. Lead has to fit the throats and barrel, and I didn't know where to find properly sized bullets back then. I tried .358, but they leaded horribly in that gun. I never tried a softer bullet though. That may have worked. I still enjoy shooting the .38 S&W caliber.

 

[W.E.G.]

I have a Terrier like the OP.

Sir, let me suggest you carry a more effective firearm if carrying for self-defense.

If it were the only gun you owned, and this were 1949, it might make sense.

But, if you are going to get into a self-defense situation, that cartridge, and with any bullet that it might fire, is really placing yourself at a deliberate disadvantage.

Even the .380 is available in "performance" ammunition these days.

Please do the right thing, and enjoy your Terrier for what it is today.
A historic novelty.

 

[Galil5.56]

On the subject of iffy performance, how about this... I chronographed WW factory 146 grain LRN ammo from my IDF Mk IV and got:

594 588 601 606 AV 597 fps ES 18 SD 7

Even with great torso shot placement, I'm not feeling all that confident with this. Guess they cater to the untold number of relatively weak top break revolvers that are 100+ years of age. On the other hand, a Speer soft swaged 158 LSWC-HP when pushed to 775-800 fps or so seems a whole nother animal. FWIW, older Lyman data adds another 100 fps to the velocities I mention.

 

[TarDevil]

My Police Positive is loaded with Buffalo Bore's 125 GR. hard cast FN, allegedly at 1,000 FPS which BB says is safe in my gun. I started a thread in Sept. 2013 about it.

I don't shoot it regularly.

 

[Old Fuff]

Guess they cater to the untold number of relatively weak top break revolvers that are 100+ years of age.

Of course they do, for obvious reasons. :banghead:

But if you have a more modern revolver they're is no reason they can't match standard .38 Special performance. This is especially so if you have a S&W K-frame .38-200 or Colt Police Positive or Police Positive Special chambered in .38 Colt New Police (same as .38 S&W, but with .38 Special groove and chamber throat dimensions),

 

[Mad Chemist]

Of course they do, for obvious reasons.

But if you have a more modern revolver they're is no reason they can't match standard .38 Special performance. This is especially so if you have a S&W K-frame .38-200 or Colt Police Positive or Police Positive Special chambered in .38 Colt New Police (same as .38 S&W, but with .38 Special groove and chamber throat dimensions),

Even so, I'd still use a SWC, LSWCHP, or full WC bullet. Getting a JHP to expand at non plus P pressure from a snubby is a tricky proposition at best.

 

[Galil5.56]

Even so, I'd still use a SWC, LSWCHP, or full WC bullet. Getting a JHP to expand at non plus P pressure from a snubby is a tricky proposition at best.

Agree, especially XTP's, even 125's driven much faster than typical .38 Special velocities... My testing of very soft swaged Speer LSWC-HP's, shows really nice expansion after about 750 FPS. The Hornady swaged bullets seem to have a harder alloy, and I don't think expansion would be as large at the same velocity. I load full WC's too, and they perform as well as can be expected.

 

[Old Fuff]

Even so, I'd still use a SWC, LSWCHP, or full WC bullet. Getting a JHP to expand at non plus P pressure from a snubby is a tricky proposition at best

.

I agree. I'm not a bit interested in expansion so long as I get a full bullet-sized primary channel. It's far more important to put that bullet where it will seriously damage a vital organ or cause rapid blood loss.

 

[Hondo 60]

I wouldn't bother spending the extra money on jacketed bullets for a 38 S&W.
As others have said you get enough velocity to expand a HP bullet.