.38 Sp+P through a Short Barrel

[ArchAngelCD]

ArchAngelCD: What part of this discussion is 'over your head?' Speaking for myself, I'll be happy to further elaborate or do more explanations. The purpose of information (and the sharing) of stuff like this is to help all of us, so ask away....

It wasn't the load data I was confused about but why you were having a problem with those AA#7 rounds. I see you have already figured it out. It's a good thing you fired those rounds off in a Stainless M640 rather than a Alloy J frame.

 

[BBQJOE]

Hold the phone.
At one point you think you are loading 7.8gr
Then you weigh over 17gr

Which is it?
I've never worked with AA#7 so I haven't a clue as to density or volume. But that is some scary stuff you have going on here.

 

[jfh]

OK, here's the hypothesis:

I went back and looked at the bench.

Normally, my scale sits on top of a little tin box into which I put the recycles. Because of my aging eyes (bifocals, that sort of thing), I picked up the scale to set the 7.8 gr. Then, with the initial settings on the powder measure (the Lee adjustable charge bar had not been used before) needing repetition, I set the scale on the bench next to the press.

Laying to the right of the scale was a small pile of load data sheets--e.g., 8.5x11 printouts from my internet searches--which I had not moved to the looseleaf notebook yet. A couple of those had the lower left corner curled--which must have been under the Lee powder tray, and prevented it from moving freely.

At least, that's the only explanation I can think of.

I can assure you that, within generally-accepted parameters, about 17 grains of AA#7 will fit into a 38 Special case and come within approximately 3/16" of the top. I can't begin to think of what the pressure was momentarily.

Because of lack of recent experience with AA#7, that full case didn't 'jog' me--so, it's time to look more closely at the procedures.

Shortly I will have a shelf along the back that will hold, among other things, the powder measures and the scale--and it will be lined up where my eyes and glasses can use the scale easily.

But for whatever reasons, I don't plan on making this mistake a second time.

BBQJoe: It's over and done with--but I thought, for the reasons above, I was measuring 7.8 grains--and, based on an after-the fact WAG based on a typical case weight--the charge was actually something around 17-18 grains. Like you, I didn't have enough current experience with AA#7 to recognize it.l

Jim H.

 

[jfh]

38SPL+P loads for practice: getting back on track

OK, after some data analysis, here's some practice loads:

All these loads were shot using Starline '38 Special' brass. Although not headstamped for +P, Starline notes it is identical to Starline brass so marked.

Ranier 140-grRNFP-P, 4.6 gr of 231, WSP, LOA 1.445.

Note that this is NOT a cannelured bullet. I put a fairly strong roll crimp on my loads, and I am shooting this up.

This load is 'fairly stiff' and groups very well out of my 640--1.25" groups at 10 yards. It was developed off the Hodgdon data for 231 and 135 LRNFP bullet--from a 7.7" barrel, they show 4.7 gr. max and a CUP of 17000, 1024 FPS. Nominal cost: 13 cents per round.

Speer GDJHP-SB135, 6.6 gr of AA#5, WSP, LOA 1.450.

This load performs identically to the Ranier 140 / 4.6 231 load listed above in my 640: Recoil feels 'identical,' shoots to same POA and with groups of 1.25" or smaller. It comes right off the Speer Data Sheet for 38 Special +P with this bullet. At 6.6 gr from a 6" barrel, they show a velocity of 1000 FPS, and "...fit within the 20,000 psi pressure limit established for 38 Special +P." Nominal cost: 23 cents per round.

My chronograph manual will be arriving in the next few days, so I will get these two loads chronographed and this post updated this week.

Note that I have used up those Ranier 140gr bullets and will be replacing them with a hard cast 140 gr. bullet from Chey Cast for further load development.

I have shot the GDJHB-SB135 / 6.6 (and 6.8) gr. from the M&P 340, and it is entirely livable. I now have some of the Speer 135-gr. / 38 SPL+P on hand and will be testing that as well.


357 shooters: 'lite' loadings--

A promising load for practice appears to be about 5.2 gr. of 231 under that Ranier 140bullet; that is a 'max load' off the Hodgdon data, showing a CUP of 19,400 at 1027 FPS from that same 10" (test?) barrel.

Another promising load is 5.0-5.2 gr. of titegroup under the Ranier 140. That shows a CUP of 24,500 and a velocity of 1186 FPS from the 10" test barrel. This one had noticably more snap in the 640, but was not objectionable.

Hopefully this post will get this thread back on track. Once the chrono data is available, I'll add to my own 38/357-2" barrel thread that's been awaiting chrono info.

Jim H.

 

[iblong]

Heres a couple of loads Ive used in the past with good accuracy.
Make sure your revolver is in good shape as these may be over spec.
158 gr.xtp hp 5.4 gr.Unique,same bullet 6.1 blue Dot.
They do make an air weight jump a bit.
Ps.sorry I just realised you were looking for lead data and I dont push my wad cutters that hard in the snubbies.

 

[Glock20]

ArchAngelCD - I've loaded 38 Special +p with 125 and 158 XTP's using Longshot and was pretty impressed with it. I will be testing this load more and hope to chrono them soon. Longshot does give good velocity at lower pressures as per Hodgdon.
I'm also going to try 800x and hand weigh the charges. This should be a good load too.

I've not tried pushing any lswc loads into +p territory. Hodgdon nor Hornady's 7th edition show data for +p lead, but Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition does.

Examples ---- From Modern Reloading 2nd Edition
158 gr lead -
Accurate # 5 5.6gr start (880 fps) 6.2gr max (1000 fps) 18400 psi 1.481 OAL
Accurate # 2 4.2gr start (879 fps) 4.7gr max (999 fps) 18500 psi 1.481 OAL
BlueDot 6.0gr start (959 fps) 6.3gr max (995 fps) 17000 psi 1.420 OAL

There are 10 other powders listed for this bullet.

As with any load data posted, please verify with a printed manual.