.38 Special 3-inch barrel performance?

[Shivahasagun]

I can agree so if we are indeed talking about a short barreled pistol being used for sd then go get the 38 +p gold dots and we're done. The bullet is designed to operate exactly in the parameters being discussed.

They aren't bad at all. Maybe a little less reliable expansion than a bigger lead mouth with no jacket?

I'd love to see some head to head testing of a soft lead HP vs the 135 gr Gold Dot from a 3 or 4 inch barrel.

 

[BJung]

I posted this photo in the past somewhere. This is a 38-135gr GD shot into 2-1/2 jugs of water. Online, NYPD and LAPD reported excellent results with the bullet. The factory load MV=825fps. I don't know what the MV of this load is, but it expands as you can see. My load is 6.8gr AA5 shot into the jugs of water about 12 feet away using a 6" S&W Model 66.

 

[westernrover]

I can agree so if we are indeed talking about a short barreled pistol being used for sd then go get the 38 +p gold dots and we're done. The bullet is designed to operate exactly in the parameters being discussed.

It's sort of wrong though -- that 38+P Gold Dots are the go-to cartridge for self defense with a revolver. They ought to be getting the same bullet to the same velocity but with faster powders and higher pressures. The result will be lower muzzle pressures, less blast, flash, and noise, and even lower recoil. They'd produce lower recoil even with the same bullet at the same velocity because with faster powders, the gun would be ejecting less powder mass.

 

[BJung]

deleted

 

[Shivahasagun]

I went up to 4.2 gr Titegroup in .38 cases and the 160 gr GT LHP bulllet.

Gun is a new model King Cobra .357 3 inch.

Turned out great! Less recoil than I expected, single-digit SD, 10-shot average 915 fps. I tried to test a few bullets but only recovered one. It expanded to an average of .67 cal. (Soft sand) I did fine a few large chunks of other bullets before they left my hard dirt box. (Still penetrated but broke a bit in the very hard, compact dirt) No leading in barrel.

When I run out of these I'll try the same powder level in the 145 gr GT LHP's I already have in an effort to reduce recoil a little for faster follow ups.

That will match my practice ammo, too, because those will be 140's.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I went up to 4.2 gr Titegroup in .38 cases and the 160 gr GT LHP bulllet.

Gun is a new model King Cobra .357 3 inch.

Turned out great! Less recoil than I expected, single-digit SD, 10-shot average 915 fps. I tried to test a few bullets but only recovered one. It expanded to an average of .67 cal. (Soft sand) I did fine a few large chunks of other bullets before they left my hard dirt box. (Still penetrated but broke a bit in the very hard, compact dirt) No leading in barrel.

When I run out of these I'll try the same powder level in the 145 gr GT LHP's I already have in an effort to reduce recoil a little for faster follow ups.

That will match my practice ammo, too, because those will be 140's.

Is this the 160gr you’re loading? Have you tried this one?
NB: This is a heavy load for HD revolvers only!
(I shoot it out of Colt’s Official Police and Police Positive Special revolvers)

 

[Shivahasagun]

Is this the 160gr you’re loading? Have you tried this one?
NB: This is a heavy load for HD revolvers only!
(I shoot it out of Colt’s Official Police and Police Positive Special revolvers)

Yes, that's the bullet. I'm using a .357 magnum gun so even if I'm creeping at the upper pressures of .38 +p I'm okay with that.

The nice thing about the 925 fps average I got from my 3 inch tells me they'll still perform from a snub even if they lose some speed.

I do think this is as fast as this bullet should be pushed or it will come apart when it hits anything.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yes, that's the bullet. I'm using a .357 magnum gun so even if I'm creeping at the upper pressures of .38 +p I'm okay with that.

The nice thing about the 925 fps average I got from my 3 inch tells me they'll still perform from a snub even if they lose some speed.

I do think this is as fast as this bullet should be pushed or it will come apart when it hits anything.

I have chrono’d that No.5 load at 950fps as well but from a 4” Official Police. Yes, I agree, that’s as fast as I want to push it. 5.0gr. of Unique gets me over 1000fps but it’s not stable on impact. Even under 900fps I won’t hunt with it because there’s just too much meat destruction.

Glad that bullet is working for you! I really like the people at GT Bullets, too. Nice folks.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Is this the 160gr you’re loading? Have you tried this one?
NB: This is a heavy load for HD revolvers only!
(I shoot it out of Colt’s Official Police and Police Positive Special revolvers)

I need to try some of that 2-2-96 alloy.

I have some Lyman #2 (5-5-90) that I made a year or so back. I'll just cut it 90% with soft plumbing lead (9 lbs of soft to 10 lbs of #2), that will get me very close.

From what I understand, keeping the Sn and Sb 'balanced' makes for better terminal performance.

What do I know, I've just been pouring CWW with a bit of tin, or straight range lead, and shooting it.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I need to try some of that 2-2-96 alloy.

I have some Lyman #2 (5-5-90) that I made a year or so back. I'll just cut it 90% with soft plumbing lead (9 lbs of soft to 10 lbs of #2), that will get me very close.

From what I understand, keeping the Sn and Sb 'balanced' makes for better terminal performance.

What do I know, I've just been pouring CWW with a bit of tin, or straight range lead, and shooting it.

When I was casting I worked for a DOD subcontractor machine shop so I had access to foundry metals. I didn’t do any blending. My uncle taught me how to make something kinda close to 30:1 and 16:1 starting with fishing weights and pewter. What I learned was, foundry metals are a lot more precise and easier to work with but they shoot pretty much the same. I just got slightly better consistency with the foundry stuff. And it was cheaper for me at the time. Almost free. If I had to pay today’s prices I’d be at the Gulf fishing villages wading through the muck for weights.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Update:

Although I have the 145 gr LHP bullets I decided they'll be used for .38 spec. practice. The 140 gr LSWC bullets I will load in .38 Colt short cases. All for the 3" King Cobra.

I want a longer-barreled .357. Probably a 4.25 or 6 in new Python. The 686+ 7-shot is tempting. Costs less and 7 shots. But I love the Colt trigger action, finish, and "bank vault" tolerances. Hate that S&W safety, too.

This heavier gun will be less wear on my hands than the smaller KC and I can shoot more powerful loads from it without beating it up. For this gun I plan to make up a 185 gr GT LHP load using Enforcer.

 

[IWAC]

Based on terminal performance testing I could find. Same as I did for the 158 gr xtp.

***Based on a well-researched article in a past HANDLOADER magazine, XTPs are "stout" bullets, and need a minimum of 850 fps to expand reliably. I found that 5.5 gr. Unique will drive 150-160 gr. SWCs to 860 fps, and will expand Speer JHP 125 gr. bullets very well in water jugs. 6 gr. will be just that more "GOODNESS" and I don't think I'll have the need to stop a rampaging Cadillac or Velociraptor any time soon. A mid-range powder may not get to where you wish, but good reloading manuals have safe load recommendations for about anything you wish. Your load goal approaches the velocities of my favorite 357 loads...the Speer 135 gr. Short Barrel Gold Dot or the long departed Speer "Mild" 357 Golden Saber.