My favorite 38 special load is 5.7 gr. of HP-38 pushing a 125 Berry's flat nose plated bullet at 950+ FPS out of my 4" S&W 581. Since I only shot 38 Special with 357 guns, I didn't worry that it was just below +P in the Hogdon on-line data. It's the max load in the Hornady manual for a 38 special using a 125 gr. XTP bullet and HP-38 (actually Win 231 is listed). Its hard to compare Hogdon to Hornady data since Hogdon uses a 7.7" test barrel and Hornady used a revolver with a 4" barrel. I recently bought a S&W model 14-3 which is a 38 Special (I don't think its rated for +P) and wonder if I shouldn't reduce the load to 800 FPS or so? That would be 4.8 gr. of HP-38, a significant difference. What do you think?
38 Special Loads for S&W Model 14
- Thread starter Barmcd
- Start date
I haven't loaded wad cutters, but I'm thinking of giving it a try. I shoot a lot of paper!
Hooda Thunkit
Member
Similar to @Walkalong, I shoot 148 gr wadcutters or 158 gr lead in my model 14(s). For the 158 gr, I use a plain old round nose, the Lee tumble-lube one.
I load to about 725 fps for the wadcutters, and under 800 for the round nose. The M-14 is a very accurate revolver, but not made for heavy rounds. I wouldn't shoot anything approaching +P in any of mine.
The only problem I have with the SW M-14 is that it seems there are more in the safe every time I look. I'm uncertain exactly how that happens.
Now that you have one, chances are good that in 5 years there will be more in your safe too. Perhaps you will have better luck pinpointing the reason.
I load to about 725 fps for the wadcutters, and under 800 for the round nose. The M-14 is a very accurate revolver, but not made for heavy rounds. I wouldn't shoot anything approaching +P in any of mine.
The only problem I have with the SW M-14 is that it seems there are more in the safe every time I look. I'm uncertain exactly how that happens.
Now that you have one, chances are good that in 5 years there will be more in your safe too. Perhaps you will have better luck pinpointing the reason.
Bazoo
Member
If it were me, I'd be comfortable shooting full power 38 Special ammo in it. It's a 38 special, after all, not a 38 Long Colt. I wouldn't shoot mid-level loads unless I wanted softer recoil.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,081
I’ve only loaded Speer, Sierra and Remington in 125gr JSP so I’m not sure how helpful this is but Sierra tests with a 4” barrel (5.5” vented test barrel) in .38Spl and their standard velocity data goes past 1050fps using W231. That’s still inside standard pressure according to the Sierra data.
The LAPD carried the Model 14 for years loaded with standard velocity 158gr LRN ammunition. A lot of those revolvers served for 10+ years or more and were cut down to 4” and reissued when the Model 15 Combat Masterpiece replaced the 14.
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conan32120
Member
I'm just guessing but I'm thinking that you didn't purchase your 14 for hunting or self defense. I'm thinking you bought it as a target pistol. If I'm guessing correctly find yourself some 148 grain wadcutters load them over 2.7 grains of bullseye and see how many bullets you can put through the same hole in the target
Yeah, its for punching holes in paper. I'm going to try some wadcutters.
Bazoo
Member
I bet the Lee 358-140-SWC would do well in it powered by Bullseye. The RCBS 38-150-SWC is bout my favorite 38 bullet though.
Decades ago, after chronographing enough factory 38 Special ammunition, I decided a safe standard pressure load produced 760 fps with a 158 lead bullet out of a four inch barrel. I was able to duplicate that with 3.5 grains Bullseye pistol powder. A classic target load was a 148 LWC with 2.7 or 2.8 grains Bullseye pistol powder.
Both of these loads are accurate out to 50 yards, which is very far to shoot a pistol.
4" S&W M10-5
148 LWC Valiant 2.7grs Bullseye W/W cases WSP
19-Apr-09 T ≈ 60-65 ° F
Ave Vel = 696.2
Std Dev = 12.04
ES = 48
High = 721.3
Low = 673.3
Number rounds = 32
v accurate, about 2" low, no leading, mild recoil
158 LRN Valiant 3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
19-Apr-09 T ≈ 60-65 ° F
Ave Vel = 758
Std Dev = 22.86
ES = 100.9
High = 810.5
Low = 709.5
N = 32
158 LRN 3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
5-Aug-06 T = 100 °F
Ave Vel = 796
Std Dev = 13.89
ES = 55.24
High = 813
Low = 757.9
N = 23
I would stay away from +P loads in an older S&W M14. Just stick to standard velocity loads, or less, and the pistol will stay in time longer than you will.
Both of these loads are accurate out to 50 yards, which is very far to shoot a pistol.
4" S&W M10-5
148 LWC Valiant 2.7grs Bullseye W/W cases WSP
19-Apr-09 T ≈ 60-65 ° F
Ave Vel = 696.2
Std Dev = 12.04
ES = 48
High = 721.3
Low = 673.3
Number rounds = 32
v accurate, about 2" low, no leading, mild recoil
158 LRN Valiant 3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
19-Apr-09 T ≈ 60-65 ° F
Ave Vel = 758
Std Dev = 22.86
ES = 100.9
High = 810.5
Low = 709.5
N = 32
158 LRN 3.5grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP
5-Aug-06 T = 100 °F
Ave Vel = 796
Std Dev = 13.89
ES = 55.24
High = 813
Low = 757.9
N = 23
I would stay away from +P loads in an older S&W M14. Just stick to standard velocity loads, or less, and the pistol will stay in time longer than you will.
I ordered Berry's 148 gr. double ended plated wadcutters - I wish I could find them locally. These are the powders I have on hand (I'd rather not buy another), and the loads listed on the Hogdon Data Site for Hornady LHBWC, which should be similar. Berry's Bullets recommends using data for lead bullets for their plated bullets. I won't come near these velocities in a revolver since Hogdon uses a 7.7" in test barrel. I'm thinking Titegroup would be the best since it doesn't seem to care how full the case is.
Here's Hornady's data for a 148 gr HBWC. These loads are probably more representative of what I'll get out of my gun.
| Manufacturer | Powder | Diameter | COAL | Starting Load | Maximum Load |
| Hodgdon | CFE Pistol | 0.358" | 1.160" | 3.5 | 849 | 14,000 PSI | 3.9 | 914 | 15,700 PSI |
| Hodgdon | HP-38 | 0.358" | 1.160" | 3.5 | 869 | 14,200 CUP | 4 | 956 | 15,900 CUP |
| Hodgdon | Titegroup | 0.358" | 1.160" | 2.7 | 771 | 7,700 CUP | 3.3 | 908 | 11,800 CUP |
Here's Hornady's data for a 148 gr HBWC. These loads are probably more representative of what I'll get out of my gun.
| Manufacturer | Powder | Diameter | COAL | Starting Load | Maximum Load |
| Hodgdon | HP-38 | 0.358" | 1.160" | 2.2 | 550 | 3.5 | 800 | ||
| Hodgdon | Titegroup | 0.358" | 1.160" | 1.9 | 550 | 3 | 800 |
lightman
Member
I shoot mostly cast in my 38's and 357's. Either a full 148 grain wadcutter or a 150 or 170 grain Keith Type SWC. The wadcutter load will be either W231 or Bullseye and the SWC's will be loaded with Unique. If its in a 357 it will be loaded with 2400.
Yeah, these loads are rather dated but they just work!
Yeah, these loads are rather dated but they just work!
conan32120
Member
/\ /\ HP - 38 should do nicely :0)
Riomouse911
Member
@Barmcd, You brought home a great revolver! IMHO the K frames are primo for learning how to shoot revolvers in double action, with the plus of being extremely accurate single action bullseye guns.
I load and shoot a lot of wadcutters through my .38’s, plated, coated and lead/lubed. My favorite load is with 2.9 gr Bullseye, this one just seems to work for me in all of my .38’s; from 1 7/8” to 8 3/8”. I also use AA# 2.
With coated 150 to 158 gr SWC bullets, HP-38 works great. I also will notload hot for my .38’s, I keep them within standard pressure levels so I don't beat my guns up.
As @Hooda Thunkit posted above; a sweet 6” Model 14 will often morph into an 8 3/8” one, then a K frame Model 19 .357 will appear, then you’ll find stainless K frame cousins in there, then…
Good luck! Let us know how your loads shoot for you when you whip some up!
Stay safe.
I load and shoot a lot of wadcutters through my .38’s, plated, coated and lead/lubed. My favorite load is with 2.9 gr Bullseye, this one just seems to work for me in all of my .38’s; from 1 7/8” to 8 3/8”. I also use AA# 2.
With coated 150 to 158 gr SWC bullets, HP-38 works great. I also will notload hot for my .38’s, I keep them within standard pressure levels so I don't beat my guns up.
As @Hooda Thunkit posted above; a sweet 6” Model 14 will often morph into an 8 3/8” one, then a K frame Model 19 .357 will appear, then you’ll find stainless K frame cousins in there, then…
Good luck! Let us know how your loads shoot for you when you whip some up!
Stay safe.
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LV Gun
Member
Love That 8 inch model 14 - I have a 6inch but would like a 8 inch one . My favorite load is a Precision Delta LHBWC with 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I also have used W244 with great results, take care of that model 14 with the long barrel.@Barmcd, You brought home a great revolver! IMHO the K frames are primo for learning how to shoot revolvers in double action, with the plus of being extremely accurate single action bullseye guns.
View attachment 1181974View attachment 1181975
I load and shoot a lot of wadcutters through my .38’s, plated, coated and lead/lubed. My favorite load is with 2.9 gr Bullseye, this one just seems to work for me in all of my .38’s; from 1 7/8” to 8 3/8”. I also use AA# 2.
With coated 150 to 158 gr SWC bullets, HP-38 works great. I also will notload hot for my .38’s, I keep them within standard pressure levels so I don't beat my guns up.
As @Hooda Thunkit posted above; a sweet 6” Model 14 will often morph into an 8 3/8” one, then a K frame Model 19 .357 will appear, then you’ll find stainless K frame cousins in there, then…
View attachment 1181976
View attachment 1181981
Good luck! Let us know how your loads shoot for you when you whip some up!
Stay safe.
Riomouse911
Member
Thanks. I bought it used off GB a few years ago, it came with the box and original sales receipt.
This Model 14 was originally sold to a person who purchased it at a small sporting goods store out on an Alaskan island S/W of Juneau. That owner took great care of it in the salty air, it is pretty much spotless. I plan to keep it well, too.
Stay safe.
entropy
Member
If I had a 14, I'd use the load that I preferred in my Trooper; 148 Hornady HBWC with 2.5 gr. Bullseye or DEWC with 3.0 gr. of Bullseye.
eddiememphis
Member
I realize every gun is different but what seems to be the most accurate velocity for 148gr wadcutters?
I bought some from Missouri Bullet Company and am getting ready to load them with W231.
Most of the loads I find guys liking are 3-3.5 grains but the speed ranges from 700-900.
I'll load 3.0, 3.2, 3.4 and 3.6 to see which works best but want to see if there is a sweet spot, speed-wise that I should keep an eye out for.
Another monkey in the wrench is I have only one .38, a snubbie. The rest of my collection is .357s so I there could be issues there.
I bought some from Missouri Bullet Company and am getting ready to load them with W231.
Most of the loads I find guys liking are 3-3.5 grains but the speed ranges from 700-900.
I'll load 3.0, 3.2, 3.4 and 3.6 to see which works best but want to see if there is a sweet spot, speed-wise that I should keep an eye out for.
Another monkey in the wrench is I have only one .38, a snubbie. The rest of my collection is .357s so I there could be issues there.
I use 4.1 grains of HP-38 with 148 grain Barry's Bullets DEWC because they are plated and I get less velocity out of plated bullets than a similar lead bullet. That load gets me a little over 700 FPS.
This is the way. Many, many shooters stay 3.5-4.1 grs.
I only get above 800 fps in a +P gun and it’s plenty for most shooters comfort.
Above 900; I‘d switch to slower powder too, but I like efficiency.
fxvr5
Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2017
- Messages
- 3,270
No issue. 357s like wadcutters even in 38 Spl. brass.
